Battling it out with the parents... final decision [parents want pharmacy and require commuting from home, student wants journalism or similar]

As an aside, while the Education/writing major seems the most flexible, it’s still not very flexible (5 writing courses and a LOT of ed courses), so since you’re good at stats&math, see whether you would be allowed to major in Data science.
Scroll down to major 78205 and 78206
https://www.kean.edu/offices/registrars-office/curriculum-sheets/dorothy-and-george-hennings-college-science-mathematics

If you have a full tuition scholarship to NJIT

2 Likes

I’m a pharmacist and I love my job, but absolutely do NOT go into pharmacy if you don’t love it!!! It’s very stressful and not for everyone! Lots of burnout….Put your parents on the phone with me! Lol

3 Likes

NJIT isn’t full-tuition; it looks like the 10K discount is around half-tuition, leaving around 10K/year to pay. Which may not be prohibitive, if the NJIT degree would be better. But there are fewer options there.

The Kean CS/Data Science Option major looks somewhat similar to the Data Science program at NJIT that she’s admitted to. My sense was that this was awfully CS-heavy for a student not specifically interested in CS. And if she did want this program, the NJIT version is probably a stronger option that could be worth the 10K/year differential.

BUT, there’s also a Math/Data Analytics major, at Kean, that is not so CS-heavy. It looks fairly flexible and could potentially be focused toward social science analytics and data visualization - topics that could be useful in a journalism or journalism-adjacent career. https://www.kean.edu/media/78206-cs-ba-mathematical-sciences-data-analytics-option-22fa So that one could be an option to add to the menu of parent-friendly options that could be tolerable for the OP, and potentially blend well as a double major.

2 Likes

You’d be surprised how many of us are aware of this, but treading very carefully.

11 Likes

Thanks for finding it :bowing_man:- that’s what I was looking for for OP. It looks more promising than the Ed/writing degree. Plus, Math/Data Analytics has excellent professional outcomes (OP would mention those only.)

@jaylab: what math classes have you taken?

3 Likes

I believe @Tigerle’s point is, “not carefully enough”… and that point is well taken.

I think we have to acknowledge that there is a very strong dominant cultural narrative on CC, and we have to be very cautious about trying to crowbar the experiences of students from other cultures into that frame of reference. There’s so much context that posters could not possibly supply without giving more personal info than they should.

Hopefully, we can help to brainstorm ideas and options without crossing the line of presuming to know what these young people should do. When they respond that some suggestions are viable, and others are not, we need to take their word about this. We may have expertise in various areas, but they are the experts on their own lives and family relationships, and there is much that we can learn from them about cultures and family systems unlike our own.

To the OP: I continue to be impressed by the grace and thoughtfulness with which you are navigating both the dynamics of your family situation, and the dynamics of this thread. It isn’t easy to combine self-awareness and strength of will about your own goals, with diplomacy, open-mindedness, and resourcefulness in finding win-win solutions. Your ability to do this at such a young age tells me that you will go far in life, no matter how your college plan plays out.

22 Likes

Agree with all of the above.

OP- you are going to rock whichever college is lucky enough to have you, and whatever major/future career you end up pursuing. Your grit and grace and flexibility is going to be much more determinative than the particulars of which college you choose.

I will just note one point- for all the parents who have posted here, whether or not their advice/suggestions/counsel is viable for the OP or not. We are a nation of immigrants (and refugees) and so while the specifics of the OP’s issues with the parents are absolutely unique to the OP, the general theme of the older generation not wanting to let go and imposing what seems like counter-productive demands (a three hour daily commute is better than living in a single sex dorm which is walkable to class?) is NOT unique and many of us here have seen and lived some variation of this. Perhaps our perspective is helpful- perhaps not.

The smartest girl in my HS class was not allowed to attend the 7 Sisters college she was admitted to (with full aid). It was out of commuting range and her parents-- who hadn’t paid much attention to her “list” (times were different!) vetoed it immediately. Guidance counselor went to bat for her- no dice. Religious leader went to bat- nope. She was the first in her family to attend college, and by golly, “no daughter of mine is going to…” (you can fill in the blanks, you’ve heard the speech a thousand times).

She lived at home, took the bus to a local college, majored in education which was one of the parentally approved majors and guess what- had an absolutely fantastic career. Has taught educators all across the country; has written several award winning textbooks, has lobbied at both the state level and federal level for changes in educational funding, is a recognizable face on TV (and name in print) when the media needs someone to comment on something related to her field of expertise. A degree in education doesn’t mean you are only qualified to teach second grade language arts. It can be the stepping stone to a degree in public policy, law school, yes- journalism, urban planning, educational administration-- the track for Superintendent and state level commissioner roles, etc.

So there is a path of least resistance for the OP. Figure out a parentally approved way to get to college, and then take advantage of everything college has to offer you (and every one of your options will allow you to thrive, grow, flourish, expand your horizons.) As an Ed major you have a natural “opening” the first time someone needs to cover the local school board meeting where they are voting to ban various books. As an Ed major, you can get press credentials to cover the Governor’s Association conference where state level changes to Ed policy are being debated. As an Ed major, you can get yourself appointed to the search committee when a new Superintendent in the local district is being hired and interviewed (and then cover this newsworthy event for the local and state wide press). As an Ed major you can start a blog-- or podcast- first to cover local and regional educational issues, and then expanding into other policy or broader issues. You’ll write, fact-check, report and edit your own material- how cool!

Just a thought. Your parents may be throwing you a lifeline (a way out of chem, bio and STEM) without even realizing it. So grab it!

17 Likes

@JayLab, we’d love for you to check in and let us know how your battle went. Getting a bit worried about you over here…

7 Likes

I’m not sure I could agree with this more! Studying education is a pathway to many careers. And also a chance to teach 2nd graders art—because that is of value too. It’s always ironic when the most highly educated are dismissive about their own children (or themselves) becoming educators when teachers are essential to everyone’s core learning. I also happen to know several teachers who are activists, journalists, and policy makers at state and national levels WHILE still shaping minds in the classroom. It’s impressive, important work.

5 Likes

I don’t have the time right now to to read all the responses. Many years ago my grandparents told my father they would only pay for college if he went for pharmacy. My grandfather was a pharmacist with his own business. My father wanted to go into the medical field. He tried what his parents wanted for one year at Fordham and dropped out, never to finish his degree. Not only did it sour their relationship from then on, but he went through a series of jobs that he didn’t like. Our family suffered. He ended up becoming a phlebotomist, an EMT, and finally went to a local community college in his 50’s and became an RN. What a shame. Things could’ve been much different. Show your parents!

3 Likes

There are likely other factors in play, for this young woman, that did not apply for your father.

1 Like

Some thoughts on journalism as a major…

  1. Many legacy media outlets have been doing poorly financially and laying off large numbers of their reporters over the past few years - think Washington Post, CNN, NPR, NBC, etc. There are not many opportunities with legacy media outlets.

  2. As the business model for news has shifted from selling print ads to the greatest number of readers as possible, to selling reinforced engagement (clicks, time logged in, etc.) of smaller, more homogeneous groups online news outlets have become more partisan on both sides of the political spectrum. It is no longer in the interest of CNN or Fox news to be objective, unbiased news sources.

  3. As legacy outlets have declined, independent journalists - Andy Ngo, Matt Taibbi, Bari Weiss, et al - have built audiences on youtube and Reddit substacks. Of course, most of these journalists had built their credentials at legacy media outlets before going out on their own. In fact, they went out on their own because they had issues with the journalistic integrity of their former employers.

  4. In response to the biased output of legacy outlets, new organizations are attempting to fill the need/demand for relatively unbiased or objective reporting. 1440 is an aggregator that scours published reports to filter out bias on current event news. Breaking Points and The Hill both use a point/counterpoint format to provide information about current events from different perspectives. These organizations are growing and may be hiring.

  5. If you haven’t already, you may want to check long-form interview podcasts like Jordan Harbinger, Chris Williamson, Lex Fridman, or Joe Rogan. They all have huge followings and they interview very interesting people from a wide range of fields. I do not think any of these hosts have formal training in journalism.

  6. Do you know what field - business, science, government, etc. - you want to cover? You may be better served getting an education or experience in that area rather than a journalism degree.

In summary, the pre-internet career track for journalists - go to Columbia, Northwestern or Kansas for a journalism degree then go work for Gannett, Wash Post, NBC, etc. - is a dead end. Legacy media outlets are dying, and you do not necessarily need a journalism degree to work in some of the up and coming information sources.

6 Likes

Likely so. I read fast and none of the comments as i was on my way out the door, but it hit a cord with my experience.

Some food for thought to consider:

My D24 has some very close female friends whose parents are very conservative Muslim. 2 of the girls wear hijabs, for example. All of D24’s conservative Muslim girlfriends have parents who have placed big restrictions on their daughters’ choices for college. 2 of the 3 are going to be attending the local university and living at home. A couple of the friends have said that their parents are planning on arranged marriages for them down the road. The 3rd friend is going to attend a different public university in state and will be living in the dorms freshman year, but her parents are relocating the entire family to that metro area in order to be nearby. And the fact that there is a large Muslim temple just off campus with a thriving Muslim student population on campus is helpful for that kid.

If one isn’t familiar with the family and cultural pressures in this type of situation, it can be hard to fathom a situation like the OP’s.

One of D24’s friends, for example, very strictly follows the Muslim law of not incurring any debt. So even though their family could afford a home mortgage, they still live in an apartment because they want to pay cash for a house.

OP:
If your parents are in this sort of category, one thing I would use in negotiating with them is that by attending Kean, for example, it would be entirely tuition free. Graduating from undergrad debt free is an amazing gift. A gift that would allow you additional freedom of job choices.

Your parents like any parents want you to have a better life than they have had. For a lot of immigrant parents, this usually equates to getting a high paying job. And for many immigrant parents, it comes down to something like doctor, engineer, or lawyer. Or in your case, they decided that pharmacy was what they’d picked for you.

If you attend Kean, for example, and if journalism is only available as a minor, then pitch a communications double major to your parents. Don’t talk about journalism. Seriously. Just don’t speak of it around them. The ability to effectively communicate one’s ideas is required in order to succeed and move up in ANY profession.

Or do a biology major with 2 minors: communications and data science. When your parents ask how come data science, explain to them that all throughout healthcare right now, it’s about “big data.” I work for a large healthcare insurance company and there are whole crews of people who spend all day churning out reports and analyzing them and then coming up with new or updated plans for what programs they’re going to implement with the member/patient populations in order to improve patient outcomes.

Consider showing your parents some data about pharmacy careers. This will require you to do some HW and look up some statistics and show them the downward trend of available jobs in comparison to the upward trend of pharmacy grad schools available pretty much everywhere.

Then look up about how much pharmacy grad school debt you’d graduate with. And then calculate what your average monthly student loan payment would be. And then figure out what your take home pay might be for a new PharmD working at a 24 hr Walgreens on the night shift.

Then it might be more apparent to them that it’s not as likely to be as lucrative as they think.

6 Likes

Wouldn’t data science with biology minor be better for job prospects than biology with data science minor?

2 Likes

Not if going against one’s parents’ wishes is a large enough issue that it will cause serious repercussions in other areas of the student’s life.

The parents support Data science as a major at NJIT so there’s hope they would, too, at Kean. :crossed_fingers:
@aquapt found the exact major corresponding to that at Kean
https://www.kean.edu/media/78206-cs-ba-mathematical-sciences-data-analytics-option-22fa

2 Likes

Hello all,
Very sorry for not following up earlier. I’m going to close this thread soon, but before I do, it looks like there’s a few misunderstandings I need to clear up. I apologize because I left everyone to make their own assumptions since I did not explain my situation clearly. I’m not blaming anyone, but I feel as though I need to clear the air.
First, I’m not sure where all this talk of culture and religion came. The only reason I included my religion and ethnicity in the previous post is because I wanted to see if they changed my chances for NYU admission at all- not because I was screaming for help or something.
Let me make a few things very clear. My parents are not the way they are because they are Muslim- devout or not. Islam is not a culture, it is a religion, and in fact, I am of the opinion that if they practiced it more closely, that would help us with a lot of the misunderstandings we have about school and other issues. All these replies seem to assume that my parents’ pressuring me to do pharmacy stems from their “conservative” or “old-schooled” Middle Eastern Islamic background. That is not the case at all.
My parents, since they have eight kids, have a lot on their plates. As such, they would like all of us to do the same thing, go to the same college, etc. so they are not burdened as much. And they also want us to make lots of money in the future, and they have an absurd notion that their kids don’t seem to have what it takes to choose a future for themselves- at least not now. That is their own opinion and it’s not because they’re immigrants (my mom is a born and raised American and my dad has been a naturalized citizen for nearly 30 years) and it’s not because they’re “devout Muslims” as some of you say. The reason they are this way is complicated and it’s not really the focus of this thread.
I was hoping to just get some advice on what major is the best to choose for my future, given my situation. I admit I got carried away and we started discussing random things about my life, somehow shaping this up to be a classic American Dream story where the oppressed Middle Eastern Muslim girl must free herself from her roots to pursue her dreams. Again, I’m deeply sorry that all of this happened. I place the blame for the misunderstanding entirely on myself for not explaining things properly. I hope everyone can understand now.
To update you on what happened, I’m afraid it’s not very good. For some reason, my parents have decided that Education isn’t a good major after all, and that I must do something med-related or else I’m doing pharmacy. Since yesterday was the deadline, they disregarded the integrity guidelines and enrolled me in both Kean and Rutgers. Rutgers is the pharmacy program, and Kean is the Communications Journalism specialization I chose for myself. It seems that if I don’t agree to change my major for Kean, I will have to go to Rutgers. I’m not sure what they were thinking.
Anyway, I’ve done some thinking and decided that Journalism shouldn’t be the sole focus of my college years after all. I believe I need to major in something more specialized so I can be more secure in my future. Although I still wish to be a journalist at some point in my life, I realize that college majors aren’t binding me to a single path in life. I was thinking of convincing my parents for me to major in Accounting at Kean, since accountants make a lot of money, and then I could perhaps minor, or double major, or dual degree with journalism later on. After graduating, I hope to go to law school for further experience and skills building, and so I could open an alternate career choice for myself. Once that is all accomplished, I wish to go into journalism, advocacy, and maybe law. I could even be an accountant for some years to make some extra money first.
Another thing- two of my sisters and I have been making some plans to get our own apartment sometime in the next few years. I need to get a job first, of course, and turn 18, but after that we think we can make it, provided I take the full tuition at Kean and they are able to pay off their loans, and we find a cheap apartment to live in. It’s not viable at the moment, but eventually we hope to do it.
That’s basically it for now. What is going to happen if the colleges found out I committed to two colleges? I also didn’t submit my immunization records to either, and while the Kean deadline for that is August 1, the deadline for Rutgers was yesterday. Does that make me out? I hope it does, but I’m not sure.
Once again, I’m very sorry for the delay (school and other stuff was making me very busy) and for the misunderstanding. I know you all were speaking in my best interest, and I appreciate your kind words.

10 Likes

You have a very good head on your shoulders!

8 Likes

Accounting is a great major and it’s both more employable and more highly paid than pharmacy. I’m sure there’s data to prove this to your parents :slight_smile:

You can add ANYTHING for your minor and whether you want to go to Law school or go into journalism, actually it’s the same, it should be in a subject where you read&write a lot (Philosophy has a lot of grad school “credit”, but history, political science, economics, even sociology or American Studies, would require you to read&learn about society.) During your 1st year, explore and enjoy!

You’re in the Honors college, right? No matter what, make sure you take all your Humanities&Social science classes as Honors because the quality of the course will greatly depend on your peers and the most analytical, hard-working students at Kean will be in Honors. If you aren’t already, complete the application ASAP - and if that doesn’t work, you can always email the professor to politely request permission to join the class, explaining what makes you excited about it and how you’re qualified/will be an asset to discussions.

Enquire about Kean’s student paper: normally being a journalism major isn’t necessary and the more you write, the better you’ll be.
Later on, after you’ve impressed your professors in your social science Honors classes, you’ll be able to ask if the professor needs an assistant: you’ll learn new techniques and new info.

6 Likes