Chance me and please be honest, thank you! I'm an Indonesian student aiming for neuroscience or bioengineer at top universities in USA. [international, <$20k, 91/100, top 3%, 1550 SAT]

Chance Me / Match Me
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Demographics

  • Non-US residents or international student
  • State/Location of residency: Indonesia
  • Type of high school: Public high school
  • Other special factors: Not first-generation, legacy, nor a recruitable athlete.

Cost Constraints / Budget
Our family budget is around $20k USD/year, though, the less the better. I will be seeking significant financial aid/scholarships

Intended Major(s): Neuroscience and Bioengineer

GPA, Rank, and Test Scores

  • Unweighted HS GPA: 91/100 (my school uses scale 90-100=Excellence, 80-89=Good)
  • Weighted HS GPA: N/A (National Curriculum)
  • Class Rank: 11/394
  • SAT Score: 1550

List your HS coursework

My institution doesn’t offer any AP/IB/A-Levels, as we follow the Indonesian National Curriculum (Kurikulum Merdeka/K-13). But here’s the list of 13 classes that I took this year:

  • Religious Education
  • Civics Education
  • Indonesian Language
  • Maths and Advanced Maths
  • Physics
  • English
  • History
  • Arts & Culture
  • Physical, Sport, and Health Education
  • Workshop and Entrepreneurship
  • Informatic
  • Sociology

Awards

  1. OPSI (most prestigious Indo’s research olympiad) Semifinalist
  2. Top 200 National Semifinalist KSR for Biology against 37k people
  3. Gold Medal National Medicine Olympiad
  4. Gold Medal National Biology Olympiad
  5. School Representative for OSN Biology (a prestigious science comp in Indo)

Extracurriculars

  1. Quantum Dot Research at 2 universities (ITB & UIN): Collaborated with professors to study how quantum dots could target brain tumors through photodynamic-therapy (success!)
  2. Saka Dirgantara (Aviation Scouts): This takes up 30 hrs/week for 1+ year. I’m the Head of Media & Creative and we successfully recruited ±150 new members nationwide
  3. Co-founder and VP of Student Creativity Forum. We grew this to 250+ members
  4. Family Cafe (Work) - 11 hrs/week
  5. Web Project: Built a storytelling website that explains how the brain works under many situations
  6. SGI Volunteer/Ambassador - 7 hrs/week for 3 months: Promoting Indonesian traditional games to people around the states
  7. Debate Club: Head of External Division
  8. Peer Tutor with STEM
  9. Woodball: Played for 2 years since grade 9

Essays/LORs/Other

  • Esssays: I don’t really have any idea yet for my essay topic. Still figuring it out

  • LORs: I’ll be asking my research mentor who is a professor or a scientist that I worked with, my physics teacher, and a neurology

Schools
Johns Hopkins University (ED1), Harvard, Stanford, Yale, Duke, UPenn (All seeking aid)

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Do you also have some sure things for acceptance that you would be happy to attend?

You are a strong student, but so are the vast majority of students applying to the schools you have listed. You might get accepted and you might not. These are all competitive colleges for admission…what do you have for a sure thing for acceptance?

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Most of these colleges want your LOR to be from teachers who have had you in their classes…one stem, and one humanities. You have the physics teacher, but I don’t see a humanities LOR.

What do you plan to do with these majors once you get your bachelors degree?

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To be honest, I’ve been focusing so much on the reach schools that I haven’t locked any safety schools yet. I do have some schools in mind like Pitt, Ohio State, or UofA

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Congrats on your background. A safety school you can’t afford is not a safety and those you mentioned you cannot afford.

For major schools, U of Alabama is likely the least expensive with auto merit but likely above your budget. You can look at Ole Miss too.

There’s an entire thread with a foreign student who was seeking similar cost - schools like Southern Miss, Minot State, Texas A&M International and more were some of the lowest cost. I linked below.

I don’t know how the schools on your list will see your finances but I know these are not all need blind for international. I would add those who are need blind and meet need (assuming they determine you have enough need to meet your budget).

These schools are

Need-Blind & Full-Need: These schools do not consider your financial situation in admissions and cover 100% of your demonstrated need.

  • Amherst College

  • Bowdoin College

  • Brown University

  • Dartmouth College

  • Harvard University

  • Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT)

  • Princeton University

  • University of Notre Dame

  • Washington and Lee University

  • Yale University

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Thank you for the reminder! I’ll try to reach out to my Indonesian Lang teacher soon. As for my plans, I’m still deciding between neuroscientits or neurosurgery. I love the idea of making discovery in a lab, but being in the OR is also very tempting. I’m hoping my undergrad helps me see which path fits me better

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Thanks so much for putting this together, @tsbna44, I really appreciate the list! I’m going to balance my reach schools with the safeties

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If you want merit scholarships, apply to schools where your GPA and SAT are way above average.

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I’ll keep that in mind, thank you!

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Sure. No reason to apply to schools like Pitt. You’ll get in but won’t be able to afford unless they have some sort of freebie that I’m unaware of.

Hopefully should you get into a reach like JHU they can meet your budget. They may not.

JHU says this whereas the others I noted are need blind and meet need, so likely better bets for ED:

Yes. Need-based and merit scholarships are available for international applicants, although both types of assistance are limited.

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You are a very strong student. You have done very well in high school.

The problem is that for universities on the “Harvard, Stanford, Yale, …” level the large majority of applicants are very strong students. You might figure that something like 80% of applicants are among the strongest students in their high school, and these schools have single digit acceptance rates.

Some of them (such as Harvard) are need blind for admissions. Your financial need will not impact your chances of admissions. Some others (Stanford comes to mind) IF you get in they will meet full need, but they will consider your financial need when deciding whether to admit you (for Stanford this applies to international students, Stanford is need-blind for domestic students). There are some other universities in the US that will ignore your financial need in deciding whether to admit you, but then will not offer you enough aid to attend.

These are all very high reaches.

I would be very surprised if Pitt or Ohio State would meet a budget of $20,000/year. They are likely to be unaffordable. There are quite a few schools that might be summarized as “U of A”. Alabama is said to have very good merit based aid, so you might have some chance there. Even if it is very likely for admissions I do not think that it is certain to be affordable.

Neurosurgery would require a medical degree (an MD or DO in the USA). I would be very surprised if you could afford to do this. Also, while admissions to affordable undergraduate schools in the US is a challenge for an international student, admissions to medical school in the US is a way bigger challenge for an international student. Neuroscience is likely to require a PhD. STEM based PhD’s in the US are typically fully funded. Thus while admissions to PhD programs can be insanely competitive, in the off chance that you were admitted to one there is a good chance that it could be affordable. This is however something that might or might not happen way, way in the future.

It is very normal and very common that a student’s experience as an undergraduate student does indeed make it clear what path is correct for any one particular student. One thing about getting a bachelor’s degree in the US is that you are likely to get exposed to quite a few opportunities and can see which one works for you. Some students get into a medical shadowing situation and just decide that it is not for them. Some students, sometimes the same students, get into a lab and realize that it is exactly right for them. Some other students have the exact opposite reaction when exposed to the same opportunities. This is one thing that universities in the US actually do pretty well (at least in my opinion).

Best wishes.

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Where do you plan to go to medical school, do a residency, and do a fellowship. International students have VERY limited options and low acceptance rates in the United States for medical schools. Plus, you would need to fully fund all costs at over $100,000 a year for four years.

The likelihood of you staying in the U.S. once your student visa expires is low.

if you want to be a doctor, perhaps you should look at options in your home country too.

@WayOutWestMom

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Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply. I really appreciate the honesty.

I understand how extreme the competition is for schools like Harvard, etc, especially considering I need financial aid. But I thought, I would regret it more if I didn’t try.

Your point about the difference between the neuroscience and medical path was especially super helpful, thank you!

I truly appreciate your perspective and I will definitely take it into serious consideration.

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I appreciate the insight! I will try look into other options

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This also comes with a waiver for the out of state portion, so the total cost of attendance should be less than $20k per year

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Neuroscience and neurosurgery are two vastly different careers.

Neuroscience is a diverse and interdisciplinary field that studies the brain, spinal cord and peripheral nervous system. Topics range from microbiology to biochemistry to electrophysiology to perceptual psychology and more. The job market for students with a bachelor’s level neuroscience degree are quite limited. Many jobs require a PhD. A PhD requires another 5-8 years of graduate education after undergrad.

So neuroscience = 4 years undergrad + 5-8 years graduate school (or 9-12 years of education)

While many science PhD programs are funded (that is, the university that accepts you for grad school will pay your tuition and may offer you a living expense stipend), the number of positions are very imited and highly competitive to get. And once you complete your PhD, there is no guarantee you will find a job. There are about 3-5x as many new PhDs every year as there are available academic jobs.

As student visa holder, you will be expected to turn to your home country once your education has been completed. US employers cannot hire you without paying a punitive fee and demonstrating irrefutably that no US citizen can fill the position.

Neurosurgery is a medical specialty. Neurosurgery in the US requires a MD or DO degree (which takes 4 years post undergrad to complete) plus and additional 7 years of practical hands on training (called residency). Many neurosurgeons will do an addition 3 years post residency fellowship to further specialize.

Neurosurgery = 4 years undergraduate degree + 4 years medical school + 7 years residency ( +optional 3 years fellowship) for a minimum of 15 years of education and training

US medical education is not open to international students. Only about 135 non-US students were accepted into ALL US med school combined last year–and that is a historically high number. Of those 135, ~85% are Canadians. (So only about 20-25 non-Canadians international students are accepted to US medical schools each year.) International med students must be able to pay 100% of their cost of attendance for med school. (Currently about $100,000/year.) There is no financial aid for international students wishing to attend medical school in the US.

So neurosurgery in the US is HUGE reach for an Indonesian student.

If medicine is your pathway, then perhaps studying medicine in your home country is the better option, or Australia, which offers many pathways for international students wishing to study medicine. In both Indonesia and Australia, medical school begins directly after high school.

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If you wish to study neuroscience in the US, then applying to the need blind/meets full need US universities you have listed is a possibility. However, the acceptance rates for international students at these school are in the low single digits. IOW, your chances for admission are not good–simply because there are so few slots available and so very many talented students all over the world applying to them. You’re a competitive applicant, but so are all the others.

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Be aware that it is the university that determines what your family can pay for your education, not your family.

When applying for financial aid you will be required to submit a number of financial documents showing what your family earns, what property they own, how much money they have saved, what any business they own are worth…all that and more will be considered and the financial aid office will come up with a number the university believes is fair. (Your family may not agree…)

If your parents are supporting family members besides you and any siblings–those expenses will not be allowed.

If your parents own a rental property or a second home, your family will be expected to sell or mortgage it to pay for your education.

I’m just saying----don’t get your hopes up. Even if you do get accepted, the FA–even at “meets full need” schools that you receive may not be enough for you to come and study in the US.

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And I’m going to add in here what I often do - and the path that I took and that many other students from emerging markets who can’t afford developed country/US fees do: another option is to do undergrad in your home country, do very well, and then get funded postgraduate study afterwards (I went the UK route for that but I know many people who came to the US that way, including a few of my colleagues who did their PhDs - or more rarely got a funded masters - at Yale, Berkeley, Notre Dame, Duke etc).

You may also want to consider continental European universities which tend to be much, much cheaper than the US (or UK) for undergrad. $20k would likely be fine for that.

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I really appreciate all the informations you have shared. I plan to discuss all these details with my parents as I consider my next steps. Thank you very much @WayOutWestMom!

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Thats amazing, thankss! Im going to check this up