<p>Happylady1, I appreciate the difficult position that you are in, regarding reporting this incident.</p>
<p>However, I would find a way to do it, realizing that you may be saving someone’s child from death, or at least, from a horrible experience.</p>
<p>I would forget reporting it to the Frat’s national organization. This is a crime and the national organization is not a law enforcement agency.</p>
<p>There are other threads on CC regarding reporting campus rapes. ie do you report to campus security or to the town’s actual police force? The consensus (rightly so, I think) is to report it to the real police. I think you ought to report this to the real police, since campus cops are beholden to their college bosses who are very concerned about reputation. Other CCers–does this make sense to you?</p>
<p>I think you should ask him “how” it should be reported, and be whom. (Not “whether”).</p>
<p>(and, yes, I also think it should be reported to the “real” police. If there is a death, or serious injury, they are the ones who will end up having to deal with it.)</p>
<p>A bit of a tangent, but a worthy story. The Minnesota Vikings had a lineman named Alan Page in the late 60s-early 70s. He is a member of the college and pro hall of fames. He was all pro and/or league MVP multiple times. When he was a pro rookie he was supposed to participate in a drinking ritual as a part of rookie initiation and he refused. This incident is often cited as proof of Page’s character. </p>
<p>Page went on to law school and now is a justice of the Minnesota supreme court.</p>
<p>-- and having members of the frat questioned by actual real badge wielding cops will make a much greater impression than being gently quizzed by the neck beards paid by the college.</p>
<p>I didn’t think I would be reading any more parenting books at this point (my kids are 18 - 29) but a friend just passed on a book that is a must read for anyone with boys: “Masterminds and Wingmen: Helping Your Son Cope with Schoolyard Power, Locker-Room Tests, Girlfriends, and the New Rules of Boy World”, by Rosalind Wiseman. It is geared toward discussions of boys from middle school and on, but definitely has note-worthy discussions geared toward high school/early college. Wiseman’s theory is that we all talk to our sons about right and wrong, standing up for themselves and others, etc., but we don’t tell them specifically how to do so. Unfortunately, I am not very far into the book yet, but I skimmed it before starting to read it thoroughly and it definitely offers valuable insight into the thought process of boys and the power struggles they often endure. I can’t recommend it highly enough, even for the parents of college aged boys.</p>
<p>I believe that Vanderbilt took the right action in a timely fashion in their “gang rape of a passed out woman case”. They got “real” police and prosecutors involved from the beginning. It is peculiar that colleges doing the right thing in regards to horrible behavior is newsworthy, but it is.</p>
<p>How about the people who hazed THEM? And the people who hazed THEM? It’s quite possible that many of them are still on campus.</p>
<p>Hazing is repugnant and has to be stopped. Cornell definitely did the right thing. But is it reasonable to make this particular bunch the <em>permanent</em> scapegoats for a practice that has gone on for a long time?</p>
<p>Piffle. They may be 19 years old. Yes, hazing is abhorrent. But it has gone on forever, and suddenly THESE guys are the only ones who are fully responsible, and you want them branded forever? </p>
<p>They could make that a penalty going forward. That would be fine.</p>
<p>I think there is no excuse for doing that to another human being, whether they were hazed themselves or not. Doing something like that SHOULD follow you around. I have 0 sympathy for them.</p>
<p>How about the complicity of the hazees? There are kids who WANT to be hazed, and are PROUD of it. If you think many if not most don’t know that they will be hazed, and aren’t willing to participate, I have a bridge to sell you.</p>
<p>There is the rare individual who walks away from the whole thing, and I honor them.</p>
<p>In the Cornell case, which involved a lacrosse team, the season was cancelled. Both hazers and hazees lost the opportunity to play.</p>
<p>Cornell and other universities that share its views are working to change a culture in which hazing was considered acceptable (as long as nobody died) to a culture in which hazing is an aberration. Inevitably, during such a culture change, there will be instances that seem unfair – as when one year’s hazers are punished for doing something that was also done by many classes before them. But you have to start somewhere.</p>
<p>Cultures can change. Remember when people smoked in their offices? Now, that’s unthinkable.</p>
<p>I do not understand why to diminish yourself gon thru this for others’ entertainment. There is NOBODY in the USA college could physically force anybody to do those stupid things. If one did it, then he did it voluntarily. He is NOT in GULAK in Siberia in Stalin’s USSR, he is not in terrorist’s prison somewhere abroad, he is in the USA at the college, expansive setting as far as most others would be concerned. So, why in a world to VOLUNTARILY submit yourself to torture.<br>
What would I do? I would pull my kid from the college and make sure he is mature enough before his next attempt at higher education. I said it only because I was asked.</p>
<p>I’m sorry your son experienced such dehumanizing and dangerous treatment along with his pledge class. Of course now he wishes he’d stood up and said “I’m outta here!”, but how many times have we as adults been in situations far less extreme where we thought later “why did I just stand there while they were so rude? Why didn’t I walk away?” Very often the brazen behavior of others is shocking and we are so stunned we freeze. I hope your son ‘forgives’ himself. He did the right thing in calling you, he plans to disassociate from this group, his next step will actually be very important and could be very empowering for him. Right now he is angry and ashamed at how he was treated and that he didn’t leave. He has the chance to report them, not to ‘tattle’ but because he could save someone else. He has no idea how much further the hazing escalates prior to initiation. What 100 pledges have gone through with discomfort and humiliation can become deadly for one with an unknown medical condition or mixed with prescription medications. I would strongly encourage him to reach out anonymously via a new email sent from a library computer (virtually untraceable) to the national organization, the IFC, and the Dean of Students. Lastly, I’ll echo what others have said, you’re an awesome mom that your son had confidence in your relationship to call you, to trust you with this information. Hopefully together you will come to an agreement to report this, to save other students this experience and who knows what else.</p>
<p>You obviously have done a good job raising your son.
This needs to be reported. I would do it anonymously if possible. If not by your son, then you. I understand your son’s desire to steer clear of the group and if done anonymously it should be. Get all the facts first.</p>
<p>To people who seem to think this hazing is okay if not ultimately harmful…we hear about the alcohol poisonings etc. but the fact is you can die from drinking too much water. So to answer an earlier post “what did they drink?” It doesn’t matter. Fact is, the frat has probably gotten away with it for some time–next time they may kill someone. You may not only be saving pledges from that type of hazing but the kids who do it from murder charges.</p>
<p>Your son is upset with himself for knowing the hazing was wrong but didn’t stand up and leave. He probably wasn’t the only one. He is completely normal in this regard. He should remember it for next time but let go of the guilt. The psychology of the group is very powerful. Peer pressure is tremendous–your son got to experience it firsthand. Hazing is peer pressure at its finest–dominance, submission, reward, group acceptance–it’s got it all. And add to that fact that frat’s have a stamp of society approval.</p>
<p>If hazing is truly benign it could be a team builder resulting in a good story and laughs but this is not one of those experiences. It was abuse by those in power.</p>
<p>Good news for your son–when he later sits in a boardroom, a jury panel, any situation where he’s afraid to speak up and do the right thing…when he does speak others will chime in–it only takes one person to break the spell of total group think.</p>
<p>As a person who reporting hazing while an undergraduate and someone who witnessed a worst case scenario of a hazing report damaging the person who reported the hazing, I think it is important for you to understand and to help your son understand what the possible implications are of a hazing report.</p>
<p>I am not suggesting that you or your son do not report this issue. I am suggesting that you may not have a full understanding of how this report could impact him.</p>
<p>My experience as an active fraternity member was that I made what I thought I was an anonymous report of hazing based on what a good friend told me about his fraternity experience. I was motivated out of concern for his safety and the safety of others in his pledge class. The university and national fraternity worked together to address the situation. I don’t know the outcome within that fraternity, but I ended up being identified as the reporter and was shunned by the greek community (for the most part) until I graduated. This happened a generation ago, but I would classify this as a probable and relatively mild consequence of a hazing report. </p>
<p>Within the last few years I witnessed a student using their university’s anonymous reporting system to report hazing that had been reported to them. The student who reported the hazing ended up being suspended by the university on the basis of false statements he made on the hazing report. He made those false statements to heighten the sense of urgency on the part of those who would be reading the report. One unfortunate lesson here is that anonymous reporters can be identified if the institution has a reason to do so. Another is that undergraduates (the fraternity chapter that was hazing) are very good at creating collaborative lies, particularly if given the proper motivation.</p>
<p>I think we have all seen the pain that whistleblowers endure in our society. I am not suggesting that this issue of hazing should be overlooked and not reported. I am suggesting that you and your son need to understand the possible consequences of a report. Unfortunately, the more anonymous the report, the easier it will be for the fraternity members to lie their way out of any responsibility. </p>
<p>In addition to the reasons mentioned in earlier comments in this thread, a reason for a report is that it is reasonable that the hazing your son experienced in September will only escalate during his period as a pledge. My advice is to find a way to help your son report the hazing, but to help him understand the range of possible consequences.</p>
<p>I would probably (I say “probably” because I don’t truly know what I would actually do in a given situation) report it anonymously, along with a promise to go to the press and/or police if nothing is done. And I would report it to the school, not the “national chapter of the fraternity” <= that gets a “LOL”</p>