@MiamiDAP That’s not how being trans works. For my brother it took years for him to realize that he wasn’t a girl and then it took even longer for him to feel comfortable enough in his identity to come out. You don’t just wake up one morning and decide you’re a man, it can take years of self discovery before people know they’re trans.
I would also recommend you read the very eloquent post (#270) just one page back by @musicprnt Hopefully that will help you understand the issue better
@snowybuny:
Thanks for sharing about your brother. There are so called “Womyn’s spaces” that won’t allow transgender women to be a part of them, yet they will often allow transgender men to attend, and I am talking people living full time as men, who have been taking testosterone, have full body hair, etc, but because they started life as women they are allowed (which is interesting, it tells you that people who otherwise should be sympathetic have the same misguided notion about gender the people who wrote this law have, that birth sex is the only sex, pathetic).
@harvestmoon1:
I think you can only change your gender on your passport if you are living full time as the opposite gender, which is similar to what many states have finally done with transgender women (the state DMV in NJ, over the objections of captain bligh, our dear hopefully soon to be departed governor, changed their requirement in the last several years from having SRS to change your gender to living full time and having certification from a therapist). What you are saying might work for someone living full time, but with transgender people there is an in between time where they are living as their identified gender part time, and in that phase they won’t have new documents. Transition isn’t one day saying “oops I am a women” and living full time, it doesn’t work like that for most people (Kaitlyn Jenner pretty much did that, but she is an outlier way out there), there is a period where people get comfortable in public presenting as they think they are, transgender women don’t spend 100% of their time presenting as a male, then one day decide to go full time and present 100% as women…there is a timeline there, that varies from person to person.
Mainstream Feminist movements in the US not only have had issues with transphobia as shown by the works of early Feminist authors such as Mary Daly, but also many issues with racist and classist attitudes because such movements were dominated and centered on the experience and concerns of upper/upper-middle class White women.
Its one reason why some transgender friends along with racial minority and working/low-income women who otherwise sympathize with gender equality tend to be wary of having any associations with mainstream Feminist movements in the US due to past bad experiences with bigotry/dismissive attitudes about their identities/situations.
This wariness is especially apparent if they are dominated by older generations of mainstream Feminists from the first or second wave.
@cobrat:
Yeah, identity politics is rife there, there are tensions between gays and lesbians on some things, issues of class and race play a role (one example? When they have the 25th anniversary Stonewall march in NYC, the parade organizers didn’t want transgender people or groups dedicated to people of color, leather groups, etc marching under their own banners, there was this idea that they were going to promote the ‘we are normal folk’ kind of thing, which meant mostly white, professional class gays and lesbians, it was pretty sad). I will add that with feminists, other than some superannuated examples and some on the fringe, most don’t have the problem with transgender women and few below a certain age do, and the lesbian community still has its extremists, but most of them represent the older generations of the lesbian seperatists and the like, younger ones are pretty supportive.
@musicprnt I’m familiar with “womyn’s spaces”, it’s a very sad thing. There are similar problems in the gay community where trans men and trans women are viewed as less desirable. There are women’s only colleges and high schools (including mine) that don’t accept trans women, but accept trans men. It’s surprising to me that organizations calling themselves feminist and pro-gay rights are gatekeeping who is “actually” gay or a woman.
Also @HarvestMoon1 and others asking why trans people can’t just change their birth certificate take a look at this link: http://www.lambdalegal.org/know-your-rights/transgender/changing-birth-certificate-sex-designations Many states require sex reassignment surgery (which is expensive and rarely covered by insurance) before they will allow the birth certificates to be changed. Please note that though the page was updated in early 2015 and there have been many strides made since then, for many of these states nothing has changed.
@snowybunny:
Among other things, that also stinks for trans folks who have health issues and can’t do the surgery. One of the plusses is that though they deliberately kept transgender treatment out of the ACA, states are starting to require it, and insurance companies are starting to get rid of the idiotic notion that transgender treatment is cosmetic or is ‘experimental’, which is how they tend to exclude it, plus they also realize that the number of transgender people is so small that the impact on medical costs will be small (put it this way, compared to smoking, heart disease and cancer, it is a tiny drop in the bucket). Disney was kind of a pioneer in that, years ago I read that they covered transgender health care including SRS in their plan, which like many large companies is self funded so they can set the terms…).
"What is your answer to where transgender persons should go to the bathroom when in public spaces? " - I really do not care where the transgender person goes to the bathroom. None of my business. I am just saying, that under no circumstances I will be in the same bathroom with the person whose parts of the opposite sex. I would do nothing, say nothing, I would just leave organization that allows something like this. The simple solution is to convert every bathroom into singular bathroom, then I do not care who was there before me or who is there after me, I just do not want to be there with somebody whose parts are different from mine. So, instead of 2 bathrooms that allow 5 people in each at the same time, the organization has to convert them into say, 6 separate bathrooms, and each should allow any living creature in a world, including pets and dogs.
"you’ve probably already been in the bathroom “with the person whose parts of the opposite sex.”
Looks like you survived just fine.
-Maybe and maybe not. The thing is that if I do not know, why would I care? However, it is NOT the case at places like school, work. There is nobody who could tell me how I feel. If I do not feel good about it, then I do not feel good about it. Who knows, maybe this feeling will produce a heart attack and I will not survive? I do not know that. I know that I much rather leave the organization with such a policy, than deal with it. If the whole country has such a policy, then it is time for ME to leave this country behind. I am not imposing my feelings on others. Feel whatever you want to feel, I do not care.
"I’m not even going to try to educate you about what transgender is, except to say that this isn’t it. " - BTW, the policy is not strictly for transgender, but for anybody who may feel a male at some moment and then female in the next moment. There are people like that also, we cannot discriminate against them, they are equals or they are not?
@MiamiDAP I highly doubt you’ll have a heart attack from peeing in the bathroom with a trans woman. I really don’t understand why you take such issue with a trans woman using the same bathroom as you.
I’m convinced a whole bunch of people in this country are losing their minds if this is what’s getting their knickers all in a knot. No other explanation. I suggest they take up a hobby.
I have a great solution which is very cheap and everybody will like it, I promise. Why not put locks on the doors. Then peoplle who do not mind to be with others who have different parts, leave the doors unlocked, and people like me have them locked. That will please absolutely everybody, I do not know why not and nobody has to impose their will on others. Solved!
The reason why it is a conversation at all is obvious, the enlightened bunch do not want us to talk about real problems that everybody is experiencing, like lack of jobs and opportunities for kids, they want us to focus on our bathroom habits. So, we just do what we are told - focus on our bathroom habits. This is the most important agenda in our lives!