My S23 tells me that all of his live STEM lectures are recorded anyway, so no one bothers attending in person unless the professor gives extra credit for showing up. But they do attend the discussion sections where they get help with the challenging problem sets (and clues to what will be on the midterms and finals). It sounds like this attendance issue is what the “flipped classroom” approach is trying to leverage at university level.
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I’d pick the easier class. It’s been a year away from this material, and often there are a few concepts that aren’t in both the college class and the high school class, so the gaps need to be filled independently. It’ll give your son some breathing room and confidence. It also can be a bit of a GPA lift if employers have a minimum. (I hate this, btw, but won’t go down that rant-path now.)
Fwiw, my kid chose the lower level in 3 classes where he had this option. Two were for his major (and he’d had 5 on both AP exams) and he was glad to strengthen his foundation and make sure it met all the expectations for going forward. The 3rd was a FL requirement and he felt he’d have been fine with the higher level, and after the fact was a bit disappointed that he’d had to take 2 rather than 1 semester of something that wasn’t super-interesting. Not at Clemson, so can’t help on the specifics. But if it’s going to be the base going forward, make sure it’s strong. (And yes, past tests might make this moot!)
As for the flipped classroom, there are lots of reasons this approach is used. Our HS used it for some classes. Some kids loved it, others not at all. DS was in the latter camp. Most of the gifted math kids (the AIME types) loved it. If there’s an option at that level to choose the pedagogy, he should pick the one that works for him. If there’s not, you may want to suggest that he think about a study group as well as figure out how to make it work best for him.
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At my
My kids had a flip math classroom all through middle school. The teacher recorded all her own lectures and they were well done. Some kids (parents!) hated it, but those kids were not doing their part, IMO. They were watching the lectures with the TV on, or while texting friends, or on the way to school. You have to sit down, focus, and take notes like a real class. The HW was note taking and I credit this math class and teacher for teaching my kids how to take proper notes in any class. On a side note, being used to this format was a life saver when covid hit and they suffered no Covid math gap.
As for the class level (I haven’t read the discussion throughly - sorry) at my kids college many (most?) kids retake the equivalent to the AP they took and that can affect the pace of the class and how you are able to keep up with it. Retaking is the college’s recommendation but one of the questions they ask is did your class properly cover all the AP units, which is more rare than you think and doesn’t necessarily prevent you from getting a 5 in the exam. At the same time, the math classes all have a test the first week that is meant to tell you if you are in the right class. The various levels of calc meet at the same time and it’s easy from a scheduling perspective to switch to the correct class if you need too.
In any case, I think an argument can be made for taking a level that will allow you no stress and to settle into college.
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I think this would’ve helped in the BC Calc flipped class my son was in. Instead, the teacher just assigned things from AP Classroom, so they weren’t particularly tailored.
And I agree with this, but that’s also what made it very hard for my kid to be able to access the curriculum. He was an athlete, and five days a week got home from school at 6:45 - 7:00. At which time he needed to eat dinner. I’d have it on the table, and he’d be able to pivot to homework by 7:45 or 8:00 at latest (because sometimes he also needed to take a shower, or spend a minute in the bathroom). For ADHD kids who need meds to be able to focus, those meds wear off usually in the early evening. Attempting to learn new information from a video when meds were long gone and he was already tired was a real struggle for him and, as he argued when he asked to be moved to a different class, inconsistent with his IEP which required a number of accommodations associated with classroom instruction and accessing the curriculum.
The thing that MIGHT make this set up workable in college is that you aren’t in class all day. There’s time during the day - when meds are working and energy is high - to watch videos, take notes well, and really absorb and retain knowledge and new concepts. In general, though, I kind of hate this model for HS students where so many kids have afterschool commitments and it means learning new things when their brains are already tired from a long day.
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That is a double edged sword. You probably know this but he should really set up his day as if he was in class all day. By this I mean M-W 1-2pm Math, in library for example and do this for every class. There is this illusion of free time that is a trap! My kids benefited from getting a job and joining a team to help structure their days.
Re math specifically, many colleges have Math Centers and “formal” study groups. He should just make that part of his weekly routine.
Some colleges have different advisors for freshmen and upperclassmen, where a lot of the freshman advising is really helping them navigate how to do everything, help them choose appropriate intro classes etc, while the upperclass advisors are more into the weeds of the major. it’s a pity they don’t have this -it sounds like it might be a good idea for colleges to adopt in general. Hope he manages to figure it out. I see a lot of students on Reddit asking about things Iike this on the specific college page, where they get responses from other students who have done those classes - has he tried there?
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His choice in the end – but I think this logic makes sense.
Btw, flipped can mean different things. At our high school, they assigned problems and worked through them. In class, they shared their answers, methods, and then had further instruction. They weren’t expected to watch video. My kid wanted to be shown FIRST how to do it, then play around with it.
I only mention this because you may want a bit more info before heading down the dread-path!
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Is the grading rubric available online for these calc classes @OctoberKate?
Do they publish professor’s names so your son can read through the rate my professor comments? (I take those with a grain of salt but if they are really really bad it could give some insight).
@momofboiler1
Re: grading rubric and professor names (and same actually with old exams) - I have no idea what of that is available. It seems like there is a lot that students can see once they log in to portal, and there isn’t much that non-students can see. (This is fine, just different from WPI - there anyone with the link can get to the class scheduling program that shows which classes are offered when, what sections there are, and by which professor. At Clemson all you can see is the classes that the university offers in general, whether they are available that semester, or year, or not, and no professor info at all.)
He has to pick his classes next Thursday, so once he gets back from the beach this weekend, he’ll have a few days to poke around on the Clemson internal website and see what he can find.
I think the issue for his major is that it’s tiny and it’s capped. They typically have around 35 students in each graduating class, so this one woman is it, she’s the advisor for everyone in the major. Based on the presentations I’ve been to where she’s spoken (three, I think) she seems super engaged and enthusiastic, and eager to be helpful, I think we just hit a snag where she’s not very knowledgeable. (I’ll contrast this with my older kid - who with two majors has two advisors - and they’ve offered little to no assistance or insight.) Anyhoo, reddit is a good idea. I’ll suggest he look/ask there if he wants to dig in more.
@gardenstategal - I like the model they used at your HS much better! What I really really couldn’t get past at ours was that all the introduction of new concepts happened via video, at night. It just didn’t work for my guy.
@TonyGrace - you are absolutely right re: setting up the day to get things done during the daytime when not in class! I’m trying to reiterate the importance of this to S25. For S22, that HAD to happen, because he had practice every afternoon and would be exhausted after. S25 isn’t continuing his sport in college. I’ve asked S22 to talk with him about the importance of blocking time during the day and treating it like a schedule - not just for homework, but even for things like hitting the gym regularly. What I’m hoping is that S25 really makes use of his calendar, and lays out time during daylight hours to do homework. If he does that, if he can use that time effectively, then the flipped classroom might not be a problem. Watching a video every day at 10:00AM is a lot better than every night at 8:00PM for him. But that’s one of those things that I can tell him, but he has to actually do. I’m crossing my fingers that he does.
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Enough of my blathering, even * I’M * sick of me at this point. 
Who else has something going on? Anyone doing anything fun for Father’s Day?
We’re going to the last of the grad parties - it had to be rescheduled because two of the five graduates ended up going to compete for their sport at States, and could no longer be home for the original day. A Grad Party on Father’s Day is maybe not ideal, but hey, it’s a dinner time and that means I don’t need to cook OR plan something, * AND * there will almost certainly be cake! I’ll take it as a win.
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That’s probably true for everyone. I suggest once he has his schedule he “schedules” his flipped class after a class that is say, near the library. It’s hard to get going with your day with something flexible. I always tell my kids to not fool themselves into thinking they will get out of bed for HW and it’s better to schedule classes in the morning and have the afternoon free than the reverse.
Wait! Father’s Day is this weekend?!? 
My husband is not a celebrator of holidays, but I normally try to make sure I get cards for my stepfather and my father in law. Oh well! They will just get a phone call this year.
I want to catch up on some of the jet lag sleep this weekend, and S25 must, must log into his summer school and Rose portals and get cracking on whatever checklists he needs to take care of. They don’t register for classes until orientation week, which is the first week of September. No idea how that will work for him. Having been an academic advisor for many years, I have looked at all of the curriculum maps for his major and have been worried about how he will get the classes he wants/needs. But the actual registration will have to be left up to him and his faculty advisor. It stresses me out, but I will have to let him handle it since he will be away at that point.
Hope everyone has a good weekend! Happy Father’s Day! (Now that I know it’s this weekend!)
9 years ago my son started at Clemson. CS major. At the two day orientation for the freshman, not major specific, they said at least 5 times over the two days to take a lower calc then what you may be eligible for. They are very proud of the rigor of their math program. This resonated and honestly all of us parents would talk about it as it was repeated so much. This advice proved useful when he met with his advisor. Others scoffed at the advice and paid the price.
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I already reacted thusly on the post, but as a professor, allow me to respond again with
Actually, maybe more like
(Seriously, if you can’t value-add students’ presence in the classroom, what are you even doing?)
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Is this really a thing? I am completely floored by this.
neither of my kids have had this in HS…I can’t imagine in college truly.
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It is.
Not all that frequently, and not every class, but definitely often enough to be a problem.
The number of students who think edgy=intelligent is small but significant.
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I am completely flabbergasted, regularly, about things that happen that I have no clue about. I know LOTS of kids in college, etc. Nothing like that was every in in my scope of consciousness now, or at my undergrad (or either of my grad programs) - I can’t even picture a kid being disruptive.
Then again, I regularly realize what a weird bubble I live in. Much of America is a mystery to me on many levels.
I read things on the internet all the time and think WTH? who are these people?
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Sadly, yes. I had a class a few years ago and there was a kid who Every. Single. Day. would do several things just to be disruptive, but he would also say, “you can’t send me out because they’ll send me right back”. He would throw things, use a yoyo that he refused to relinquish and hit other kids with it in the back of their heads as soon as I turned around, refuse to sit down, walk around and bother other students, etc. etc. His parents also begged for a behavior plan (as of course did all his teachers) but the administration refused because Reasons. I’m still not sure exactly why, but it wasn’t good for anyone. This kid never had any boundaries permitted for him.
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So today was graduation day for us. I forgot to wear sunscreen and yes I got burned. Both the student and teacher/staff speakers did a great job. 386 graduates this year and I guess the highest average GPA for the class as a whole.
Her dad’s new gf tried to bulldoze and control prom pics last month and I was worried about how graduation would go. She started off trying to do that after graduation as well. Immediately when D25 got back to the field, gf was directing her where to stand and what to do for photos with them. D25 actually started to walk off and I had to tell her “hey, I need a quick photo too” because gf was in the way. I could immediately see D25s eyes get big and I didn’t want to cause a scene. I even took a photo of D25, her dad and the gf for them with gf camera. Again, I know I need to be positive and focus on more people to love on my kid is a good thing. It just seems a bit over the top so I am a bit uneasy because the last woman he had in our kids lives started out like this and became psycho controlling. My ex has never been much of a photo taker and I always share pics and videos of big events in the kids lives (even when we were fighting in court).
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