School Size/Type For Kids Who Struggle To Fit In (ADHD/Gifted/Anxiety)

College Search & Lists
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Hello wonderful people, would love some experience feedback. I have a now senior, and since we can’t visit schools this summer, here we are!

The question: BIG (AZ) or SMALL (out of state) school?

I’ve got one of those kiddos who has always, we’re talking since preschool, struggled to fit in with peers. For a reference, let’s picture Janis from Mean Girls. :wink: I just want her to be happy and find a place she can fit in, feel confident and connect with others.

I used to joke she was already an old lady at age four. Adults have always loved her, teachers gush about her and adults she interacts with find her witty, funny and engaging. Peers are more of a challenge. She’s got a combo of ADHD, anxiety and food allergies. She’s also grown up in self contained gifted programs at school, which I mention not related to academics, but more about some of the social issues & challenges that some highly gifted kids deal with. Also, she’s LGBTQ and let’s say intense & high strung (since birth).

While she’s never invited/included to do anything with peers in high school, and trust me, she’s really tried, she does have a small, close friend group outside of high school, mostly older than her, tied to hobbies and common interests. She’s not into sports, popular music or clothes (basically the things most peers enjoy, she has zero interest in). She is heavily involved in theatre, both on and off stage, and loves writing, art, cosplay and books. With friends I think she is at her very best 1:1 or small group, and is challenged navigating larger groups. Pre-COVID she probably would get together with friends once every month or two. Without question I know she’d love that to be much more often.

BIG (AZ) or SMALL school?

BIG SCHOOL? Much easier to get lost in the crowd, feel overwhelmed and struggle to connect. But also, the more diverse population, more clubs, more activities, the more likely you might be to find your tribe. Being that the only large schools on the big school list would be in ARIZONA where we are, we know that we are talking party/sports/Greek atmospheres, which are NOT her thing, though surely that’s not everyone at them. She’d hopefully make it into the honors programs, which might help give a small school exp at a big school. And no denying it, the price would be a HUGE benefit. We have close family in Tucson & near Flag, so good support system. Easy for her to get away for a night now and then if she needs a break (ADHD sensory overload).

SMALL SCHOOL? The ones on her radar are very small - Kenyon (top choice, for writing and a nut-free dining facility), Denison (not sure we can swing the $$$ on either as we won’t qualify for need based aid) & Webster. Small probably makes it easier to meet people, not disappear into the crowd, less intimidating. Less sport/party/Greek focus. However, you also have a much smaller group of people to find common ground with. I worry it could be like high school, but you don’t get to go home at the end of the day.

She wants to pursue writing, would love to minor in theatre (or at least be able to do it as a hobby outside of school) and would like to limit her search to near Columbus, OH, St. Louis, MO (both have family nearby) or AZ, though the west / SW is also an option she’s open to. While we want her to spread her wings, we (she, us, therapist) all agree a support system not too far away is probably for the best.

Any words of wisdom? Thank you so much.

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For the small schools, she really has to check out their vibe, as they can be very different. Because they are small, if you don’t fit the vibe, it will be hard.

Kenyon is known for theater but when we visited it was much more athletic and preppy than you might imagine, and it does have Greek life. Denison is more diverse, but also has Greek life (non residential). Neither are like big state school though. We really liked Wooster plus they and Denison do offer merit.

What are your D’s stats as that will help posters point out any available merit?

Some large schools offer smaller LAC like residential experiences e.g. Blount Scholars at Alabama. Perhaps Arizona has something similar? My eldest D went this route and has enjoyed having her intellectual peers nearby, plus the wide range of other people and activities (incl football - I never would have guessed, but she actually likes it!).

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***Stats, in case anyone else is wondering…

*GPA: 3.8 UW / 4.4 W

*Tests: Unfortunately she’s now had 2 ACTs and 2 SATs canceled.
Based on 3 years of PSATs, I’d guess probably around 1350 on SAT, but she thinks she’ll do better on ACT. She’s also had math test prep since PSATS. Signed up for July ACT, but AZ’s covid cases are going through the roof, so doubting it’ll happen.

*Academics: Aside from electives, all classes have been honors & AP (will finish with 9 APs). Had two more credits than needed to graduate early this year, stayed to do one more theatre season (sigh… except, COVID). Writing is her strong suit. Math has is where her B’s have been, but she has continued to take the most challenging math offered every year, and will finish with AP Calc AB this year. Will also do both a drama directing capstone and literature capstone this year as well (we don’t have the actual AP Capstone).

*Main EC: Heavy drama involvement. Has acted in every drama production, leads in musicals (we are the flagship theatre program for our large district). Drama council rep sophomore year, Drama Club president junior year, she’ll transition to Thespian Club president senior year. Lettered in drama and academics freshman year, Named Freshman and Sophomore Drama Student of the year (junior year is a scratch, they just threw in the towel when school closed early, so no banquet or awards). Designs the show Playbills, marketing posters and shirts. Also steps in to help the backstage crew with wig styling and makeup for shows she’s in. Her commitment to the theatre program is endless. It’s killing me that she likely won’t have a theatre season this year. It’s what brings her joy. :frowning:

*Other EC: Society of Women Scholars, Mu Alpha Theta and Veteran’s Heritage Project. Also was the editor of the school literary magazine, but that was another casualty of COVID and wasn’t completed. She volunteers at our neighborhood animal shelter, but not a ton of hours as school and theatre keep her busy.

I think that sums up who she is as a student.

CollegeMamb0, THANK YOU! That is now the second time I’ve read something like that about Kenyon. Certainly something to think about. We had planned to visit Ohio this summer, one of my best friends lives in Granville, so we would have had plenty of time to check out Kenyon, Otterbein and Denison. She hasn’t been back there, but I know she would flip for Ohio and Granville (we are desert dwellers, I’m floored by Ohio’s beauty and atmosphere).

I think if she could get into ASU or UofA’s Honors Colleges, that would likely help give her more of a smaller school feeling. I need to further look into what they have. I wish we had some small LACs here, but I’m realizing those are just a lot harder to find in the Southwest unfortunately. It blows my mind the amount of colleges in say Ohio compared to AZ!

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The answer is that it depends on your child and how he/she perceives different options. My S had many similar traits. I thought a small school would be ideal. But when we visited a couple of LACs he found them to be too small – he felt that everyone would know his business and he was not comfortable with that. I think what he was trying to say was that if he wanted to quietly “fade back” for a while (to reflect, regroup or whatever) it might not be possible. (Separately, when we looked at LACs with my D each one had a distinct vibe so if you go the LAC route look carefully at each school - they can’t be lumped together).

We all agreed that the huge schools were not the right fit.

So pretty quickly his focus was on mid-size universities where the class sizes were generally small (under 35 typically) but there were more students around to choose friends from and what felt like a little more freedom if he needed to step back for a bit. He also liked urban schools and he spent his first two years in a wellness dorm both of which which turned out to be ideal as he was not a partier and living with (mostly) like minded kids and being near a city offered some other types of entertainment options.

So anyway to make a long story short I’d look at some mid-size colleges for your D as well.

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I know they are too far away, but Skidmore and Vassar really jumped out as potential good fits!

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I opened this thread because I have experience with a kid with similar traits – who wanted big. But then I chuckled when I read it because I also have a Denison student (and both kids visited Kenyon multiple times).

We assumed my highly intellectual kid with anxiety and ADHD would want a small school – close relationships with professors, support for intellectually curious students etc. He dutifully visited Kenyon, Oberlin, Grinnell and preferred Oberlin of those three, but came alive when we visited Big 10 public flagships. At a big school, the possibility of watching, being on the sidelines was an enormous relief for him. Large lectures and small discussion sections gave him the ability to control his engagement and helped him feel comfortable. In contrast, our “go along, get along” kid wanted a LAC where he couldn’t escape the professor’s probing questions, where he would HAVE to engage, because he didn’t stress about all that. Both kids were in the absolutely right environment for them and have enormous love for their schools.

Just one data point, but a big school with an honors program could be a good balance. Then again, as a Denison parent, I am a HUGE supporter, and have seen so many different kids flourish there. Simply being quirky describes plenty of my Denison kid’s friends, so I wouldn’t hesitate to encourage further exploration.

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You are thinking about this right. I am a huge fan of LACs but at most, you really need to have the right vibe. The tight knit, small community that makes them so beloved by their students can be oppressive if you’re unhappy.

Overall, I think the women’s colleges can offer a less stratified social scene so they could be worth a look. Schools that are closer to/in a city (Macalester, BMC) often have some of the social energy/pressure siphonened off which can be good if that’s a source of anxiety.

There are smaller schools with a quirkier vibe (Wooster, Earlham, Guilford) which might feel more welcoming.

Another thumbs up for Denison, btw.

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To clarify, the only large schools she will consider are in Arizona, but ideally, she wants to stay in the Midwest?

My first thought was Oberlin, which is a larger than most LACs, with 2700+ students. I also thought of Clark University and Skidmore, but they’re not in the Midwest. She would probably be offered a nice merit scholarship at Clark, and it has over 3000 students.

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She sounds like my D20, though you’d have to add in some learning differences on top of the rest. We luckily had the option to do tours and she definitely gravitated to small schools, but not all small schools. The oft touted vibe was really a deal maker or breaker (that’ was actually true for my D19 who went small too). She ended up falling in love with the vibe of her chosen school so much that it won out over the rest of her considerations she’d set when she started looking. She just felt she would be happy and accepted there and that wins.

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Agree with @gardenstategal about women’s colleges, they often offer a more open, less judgmental social community than co-ed schools. I don’t know Scripps specifically, but perhaps others can chime in whether that may be an option, in terms of culture, since it would be geographically closer to AZ than the east coast.

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“And would like to limit her search to near Columbus, OH, St. Louis, MO (both have family nearby) or AZ, though the west / SW is also an option she’s open to. While we want her to spread her wings, we (she, us, therapist) all agree a support system not too far away is probably for the best.”

Given that, you probably want to look at small and medium-sized colleges near Columbus and St. Louis and compare them to the AZ flagships since it looks like the important factors are support system and affordability, after fit. Definitely consider WashU, she has the grades and rigor for you to consider them and their FA package will be good. I did a quick google search on colleges near Columbus and outside of OSU of course, most of them are pretty small, but I really don’t much about the colleges. (Franklin, Ohio U etc.). You can do a similar search for St. Louis and see what you get.

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I’m originally from St. Louis. Live in SoCal now. My DD is headed to ASU Barrett in the fall. So far, I’m a big fan of the school and I believe that any child can find their group at such a large university, or at U of A, with the benefits of a small honors college too. Barrett has the signature classes like The Human Event, which sound perfect for your daughter’s interest.

Wash U is terrific, and I was just reading that St. Louis University has resources for LGBTQ students. Both schools are in a progressive part of town. Webster is a nice area, but I don’t know the school well. It’s pretty small, but supposedly has a very good theater conservatory program. You may also want to check the Honors College at Mizzou, which is two hours away from STL in Columbia. Being it’s the state flagship university, anyone can find peers there in their group. They have one of the best journalism schools in the country.

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First, thank you.

The only reason she’s looking at large AZ schools is because we are in AZ. I don’t think she’d ever give them a glance otherwise. It would be for $$$ and proximity only, though UofA has a few things that are appealing (they are a Food Allergy & Research Education dining school, and the SALT center is supposed to be great for ADHD kids). Basically they are only a match for location and affordability.

Ohio has her attention because my best friend lives in Granville, so she’d hav support nearby. Webster in St. Louis is an hour from my in laws. I worry so much about her far away without a support system so we’ve tried to look in areas near family/friends.

I do think the size you mention sounds really appealing.

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Thank you so much for sharing your experience. I do think we need to look mid-size, it’s not really been on our radar. And I think you are so right about the vibe of LACs, like everything else, for everyone else, it’s frustrating to not be able to check those out in person. :frowning: We had both spring break and summer trips to do just that. Here’s hoping it’ll be a possibility in the not too distant future!

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Thank you, we’ll check those out! Everything feels so far away. I never realized how light we are on colleges out here in the west, it feels like everything is east!

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Thank you so much for this thoughtful reply. It is very helpful. It’s so hard not getting to be on campuses, so far we’ve only toured one school last summer (Webster).

Definitely something to think about with the “cover” so to speak that a large school would give. That never crossed my mind but makes complete sense.

We will definitely look into Denison. My best friend is in Granville, 1.3 miles from the school to be exact, just a walk up Burg! She moved there a year ago, I’ve visited in each season, and I am utterly smitten with the area and I know my daughter would be as well (kind of over big, generic, desert AZ).

Can I ask how you would compare Denison and Kenyon? The vibe, the kids, things like that. We had planned to visit both in July, which no doubt would have helped a lot.

Thank you!

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Thank you so much! I feel like the LACs could be great or terrible, and it probably comes down to that vibe. As you mention, beloved or oppressive. I’ll check out the other small schools you listed. This kid, she’s the most amusing, entertaining human I know, but just don’t fit the mold in high school. Praying we can find it for her in college. I’ve promised her there she will find her people, I hope it proves to be right.

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I’m so glad your daughter found her school. My younger one has a lot of severe learning disabilities, I’m not sure if college will be in her cards, so it makes my heart happy whenever I hear of kids with challenges finding their places.

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Wow, I honestly never would have thought that with woman’s schools, I guess in my head I was picturing a big sorority, which would not be a fit for my daughter. But it makes sense now that I think about it. I’ll do some checking on Scripps, I would be VERY happy to keep her within a one days drive if possible, but it really is kind of slim pickings. Thank you!

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Thank you so much, congrats on your daughter heading to Barrett! She’s really resistant on ASU, but probably because it’s where I and my dad went. I do feel like the honors college, within the giant school, might offer a best of both worlds maybe.

I know Washington U is amazing for writing, I never really paid much attention as it looks so hard to get into. We really enjoyed St. Louis when we visited last summer (the zoo, the science center, the Muny!). Maybe we need to expand our hunt a bit more in St. Louis. My in-laws are in IL, not super close, but there (though aging). Definitely an amazing theatre scene!

Thank you so much, good luck to your daughter! If you need a local mom whenever she gets to campus, don’t hesitate to reach out!