I am sorry not to be more clear. I’m not claiming to be a good writer.
In some cases, it is much easier to do the child’s work oneself (school work and household chores) than teach the child the necessary skills. However, it’s only a short term solution.
I think in many homes parents are able to teach school skills in a way that teachers can’t because of limited time for individual students.
Whether parents teaching their own outside of school, by helping with assignments, (and probably positively impacting their grades) is ethical is an interesting question to me. I hadn’t really considered it. If the work isn’t graded, does that eliminate the issue of unfairness? I have no clue. I like your thread.
The bottom line is that life is not an equal playing field. Yes, my daughters turned into good writers perhaps in part because I was able to give them extra attention in that area than others may get. But they are lousy tennis players because I don’t care for tennis and do not have access to good courts. They are also not as good at math and know that they cannot turn to me for that support.
And the child who needs to work after school, may not have the time to finesse their essays or study as hard for test as the child without after school responsibilities.
So I don’t really think getting reasonable parental support is a matter of ethics, but rather circumstance.
I don’t have an ethical problem with that. Since I am also a an English/reading/writing teacher, I also did have the time, opportunity, & knowledge to do that, but since their schools (elem. & high) laid a good foundation in the first place, they were gradually and progressively shaped into writers.
I guess my problem is less with situations in which the teacher is not instructing and not providing sufficient feedback for the student to learn from errors. I actually tutor such students precisely because they are getting little to no explanations for their grades, and that tutoring involves instruction, modeling, and an awful lot of dialogue. Naturally a parent might have to play a similar role if (i.m.o.) the child is being cheated. I mean, what you would think if you enrolled your son in an auto mechanics class, and the instructor saw his role as commanding the student to “fix the car” yet didn’t show how to do that?
Instead, this is a private school student, and all of the classes are small, with sufficient time for the teachers to be doing what some of you have had to do for your children. Writing is hard work, and correcting is hard work, but if you don’t want that kind of work, you shouldn’t be hired to do such a job. Again, however, the parent is not instructing but over-writing, heavily editing, etc.
Is the problem (1) the child isn’t learning because the parent is doing the school work, (2) the child is getting an unearned grade, (3) the child has inappropriate outside help for a school assignment?
I tried to assist DS with a “business letter” assignment. I write lots of them in my career. The form book the school provided him was quite cryptic. My assistance was mostly trying to explain what the terms meant that were in the form since they were not defined. “We” received a poor grade so he never asked for that type of help again.
I have gone to student presentations and seen projects that at least appeared to involve significant parental involvement. My DS actually had to be the next presenter after one of these and the contrast between the two projects was pronounced. From the congratulations from many parents after the event, I do not think I was the only one that noticed. Those other parents were kind enough to support my son for doing his own work (without coming right out and saying it) and I GREATLY appreciated it. I do think it is unfair for students to receive significant help. Proofreading is fine. Doing the work is not.
My D is a good writer and her grades reflect that. She also goes to a small school where most work is done IN school and where teachers generally have plenty of time to help with assignments. She rarely asks fro help with any assignments. But, H is a writer by trade and by education, and she HAS asked him to look over important essays for out-of-school programs or for help when she runs into a block with something for school. His suggestions are general and he does not rewrite anything, but he DOES have more experience as a writer than she does his suggestions are valuable. The school has quarterly projects and parents are expressly asked to help with certain ones, but the students really do most of the work. When we’re asked to get involved, it’s to make sure timelines are followed, or when kids are doing a project that requires surveying or input from adults.
Fair question, @alh
Primarily, child is getting unearned grade is the first ethical problem, in my view, and particularly because the child seems to have the tools, both natively and through school training. (However, it will simply take longer if the child is made to work and to self-edit. It’s a matter of convenience and advantage.)
Secondarily the child isn’t learning or at least is believing that she “needs” outside help. That is handicapping the child artificially, in my view, and thus hampering the independence and confidence she will soon need in college. (translates to failure in parenting, i.m.h.o.) I can speak to this as a tutor and teacher because so often I see that the student simply doesn’t believe he is capable of writing, and that lack of confidence stems from two realities: (1) insufficient writing assignments in school; (2) a habit of assuming the tutor (or any other outsider) needs to “start” and continually affirm, validate, and edit, even when the student has progressed in skill and understanding. It’s a dependency built from habit.
Occasionally, I would read my S’s hs writing assignments. I might say something like, " I didn’t understand the point of paragraph 2."or “You seem to be repeating the same point a lot.” Sometimes he made changes, sometimes he didn’t. In my opinion, he is not a particularly good writer, technically speaking (bad grammar and punctuation) but he is great at arguing a point and creative thinking. He generally makes As on writing assignments in college (a music conservatory) so I guess he writes well enough. D, on the other hand, has always been a good writer (currently working on PhD). I don’t remember ever editing her work, except for her college essay. And, again, that was more suggesting stronger word choice and structure - not making changes myself.
I was lucky to see any of D’s work. If I did read her papers, I would at most say a paragraph was unclear (“I don’t quite understand what you’re trying to say”) or if she repeated herself within the same paragraph or wrote a circular sentence. No editing. I have my own voice; she has her own voice. I’m not a professional writer, editor or teacher, so I have no clue how to edit without affecting her voice.
D is also slightly dyslexic so if she misspelled words, I would tell her she had misspelled words without pointing the specific words out. This was left over from her tutoring days - the tutor wanted D to recognized misspellings on her own (we all assumed she would have misspellings on the first draft so it was important that D could recognize these errors).
I did edit her resume for summer internships. I didn’t feel that was a problem, because I edit other people’s resumes as well. She wrote her own cover letters.
One child had organizational issues and I taught her time and again the basic structure of a paper. Things like how many paragraphs, supporting sentences for each new idea, that you could write your conclusion first and intro paragraph last. This year freshman year of college she got A’s in her writing classes. I never saw a paper.
I don’t regret teaching her how to write. I never cared about the grades, I thought it was important she get more instruction than what she got at school.
It has not been my observation that most teachers don’t have time for review and rewriting. For almost all of my kids’ major writing assignments they have been required to submit rough drafts. Often they do peer review as well.
I will proofread things if my kids ask me to. They usually don’t. I did review some of my son’s application essays. Suggestions would be along the lines of “that sentence is kind of awkward” and pointing out any punctuation errors and such.
My kids, all college grads now, will occasionally ask me to look over an important letter or email, and I’m happy to do so. D3’s graduate advisor did an edit of an important email this spring, and her suggestions were spot-on for the culture of the school.
I like to have someone I trust look over important documents that I write, too.
Once my s hit high school he would not let me near his school work. I could not “help” him even if I wanted to. He is a math/science nerd. The most he will do is ask me to read some of his lit readings so he can discuss the lit analysis he is supposed to do with me to make sure he understands what to look for since I was a lit major in college.
Our kid’s fourth grade teacher gave us the best advice. She said…“please do not correct your kid’s homework. It helps me to see where your child makes errors so I can teach him well. If all of his homework comes to school correct, my assumption would be that he did it himself. Make sure he has a place to do,his homework. Make sure he gets it done. Offer assistance if he asks. But please don’t correct his work.”
Whew…took a lot off of my to do list every night…and made every bit of sense.
My kid knew better than asking me about helping with essays. But no I never looked at kid #1 or #2 homework. It’s for them and not for me. They’ve been on their own since kindergarten. My husband and I lead busy live so we can’t check everything.
My kids never let me look at their work, but S did have D help him draft cover letters for his resumes for jobs. He did get 3 job offers, so I’m assuming they did things well between themselves. They are both good writers, with D being the better of the two (though she struggles with punctuation and some spelling–thank goodness for spellcheck).
I know people who have helped edit their kids med school application essays and personal statements. Our kids didn’t let us help with any app essays, but did get feedback from a teacher and friends on their college app essays.
One does not get a grade for college and professional school applications and essays. One could get an acceptance, obviously, but it generally backfires, or helps little, when parents are rather intrusive into either of those situations, so there is actually less risk of a completely or largely ghostwritten application by itself resulting in an acceptance dishonestly achieved than a grade on an essay having been dishonestly deceived. And “helped edit” is different from heavily edit, i.m.o.
The situation I described is academic, not applications. I think the latter, and resumes, fall into a different category.
Personally, I cannot accept over-writing a student’s academic essay and having the student turn it in as her own work. It’s not her own work.
I respect that other people do not share my view and that I’m probably in the minority here. Again, instruction, guidance, suggestions, an honest answer if a child asks you that – I see all those as quite different from unilaterally “taking charge” of a student’s academic paper. (That’s what has been happening.)
I was just asking my S about this. He said “You didn’t write my papers but you did do a lot of coloring.” haha. I am still appalled at the number of assignments in hs that involved coloring maps, making posters, etc. My S hates any kind of artwork, so I do remember working with him on those types of things - he told me what to do and I complied. I consider it management experience!