Things my daughter should focus on

Parents Forum
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I would first like to thank you all for your time and effort in helping me with my dilemma.

No, this post is not a joke; it very much reflects the reality of my current situation. My daughter and I both had thought that she needs some activity that is related to her desired field of study.

I concede that I got really worried when my daughter told me many stories about her friends - some making their own companies, winning science fairs, math competitions, 2400 SAT scores, etc. Even more concerned when I perused some of the Stanford applicant stats on CC (her dream school).

From your guys’ input, it seems as if several points were highly accentuated (just to recapitulate for myself):

  1. My D should look for a volunteer opportunity (potentially at a nursing home / hospital / science fair / science museum) that is somewhat related to her field of interest.
  2. Focus on her favorite sport (badminton but she was only on JV backup for school team last year) for a more competitive varisty position.
  3. Add some leadership spices to her EC dish; maybe create a soroban club / attain leadership positions in current clubs.
  4. Assuming her grades remain satisfactory, try out some SAT II/AP test (maybe self-study AP chem?)
  5. As her concerned mother, I should give her more breathing room for her to develop more dynamically while encouraging her to focus on activities that pertain most closely to her interests.

Since this wasn’t mentioned before, another critical reason we want to find her more EC activities is that whilst applying to many of the summer camps (cheap ones -> quite prestigious) that were recommended, I noticed that she had a lot of blank space in the Awards / Volunteer / EC activities columns. When I look at her application as a whole, I cannot really find anything significantly discerning her from other applicants. Do the written essay questions and teacher recommendations really play such a paramount role or does she just not have enough “substance” (in terms of acceptance). As her most passionate supporter, the last thing I want for her is for all the time she spends perfecting each one of her applications to go to waste when her chances of getting in are slim.

Again, I would like to thank each one of you very much for taking your own very precious time to reply to my personal concerns.

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  1. Her stats and EC’s are fine
  2. She does not yet need a field of interest. Choice of major can wait and choice of career is years away.
  3. Having a slim resume is normal for her age. But hers doesn’t sound that thin anyway.
  4. Take SAT tests on the usual schedule. They are already stellar except for the CR. (and don’t overestimate the importance differences in scores after a certain benchmark.)
    5)) Let her develop and enjoy high school without excessive focus on getting into college.

High school years are not just a time to build a resume for admissions to college. It seems that many of us think you can stop worrying and enjoy these years yourself :slight_smile:

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“Sport is an important part of life. It helps students find out more about themselves, particularly for students who do excel in the academic areas. And, it helps them let off steam from the academic pressures. We see a lot of top students who are not varsity athletes but who turn out in order to do these things and find challenges.”

Being physically active is the important part. Whether that is accomplished via an organized sport or by “private” endeavors (riding a bike, taking walks, going ice skating, playing tennis) is irrelevant. And it’s not important to “find challenges” if you’re just riding your bike to get fresh air and move about.

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When D was a HS freshman another parent told me that she “needed” 4 years of a sport for a selective college. She did a sport freshman year only, but concentrated on another non-sport activity for the entire 4 years. S played no sports at all and tried many different activities before settling on a few during his junior and senior years. Neither kid was involved in music. Not that sports or music are bad, just not their thing. Both kids did fine in admissions.

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“Music, academics, sports, social…four very important activities and kids owe it to themselves to not leave out one.”

Why is music necessarily any more important than any other art (theatre, fine arts)?

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Worriedmom12, my advice is to drop a focus on Stanford, and instead focus on having your daughter attend a university of high quality. Of course, Stanford is of high quality. But it is just one of many high-quality universities, where your daughter can get an excellent education.

If your daughter is in a school that has sent at least a few students to Stanford in the recent past, you might look at the Naviance or other data about them.

In our part of the country, Stanford admissions are unpredictable. A friend of my child’s, who had 800/800/800 SAT I, 800/800/800 SAT II, a 4.0 UW GPA, 8 AP’s completed at the time of application (all 5’s), AP Calc BC as a 9th grader, multiple university courses, 3 languages (2 at AP level, one at a university), varsity sports, and state-level recognition in EC’s (though not national-level recognition), and who was an all-around good person, was not accepted by Stanford.

Many students with weaker qualifications on a statistical/objective basis were accepted (though not many from the local high school, specifically). This is important to consider. If your part of the country does not send a lot of students to Stanford, then there is somewhat of a lottery elements in getting in on the basis of achievements.

For California students, Stanford admissions might be somewhat more predictable, especially if your daughter attends a “feeder” school.

I have formed the impression that Stanford particularly likes athletes, among the schools of its caliber.

If Stanford admissions are unpredictable in your region of the country, I would recommend first off not focusing on Stanford. Secondly, I would recommend that you and your daughter read and take to heart the book by Carol Dweck called something like Mindset. Dweck believes that people have either a “growth” mindset or a “fixed” mindset. Those in the “growth” mindset category are invigorated by challenge and undaunted by failure; they believe that skills can be developed. Those in the “fixed” mindset believe that challenge should be avoided in order to keep up appearances and to prevent the risk of failure. Stanford admissions scours the applications for evidence of a “fixed” mindset, which will almost certainly cause rejection. Also, Stanford admissions likes “irreverent” applications–just not irreverent about Stanford.

Personally, I find the mindset analysis to be simplistic, and the experimental basis for it to be questionable. However, it seems to be super-popular with Stanford admissions.

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Worriedmom, your absolute first order of business is to model for your daughter the concept that there should not be one “dream” school (in your case, Stanford).

First off, let’s get real – is her dream REALLY Stanford because she’s knowledgeable about colleges and it so happens Stanford best fits her criteria, or is her dream school Stanford because it’s got an instantly recognizable, highly prestigious name that impresses people?

Of course Stanford academics and opportunities are impressive and top-notch in every way. So are those of about 40 or so other colleges / universities in this country. I highly, highly suspect that the reason Stanford is her “dream school” is that she’s talking to other unsophisticated, naive people who glom onto colleges they’ve heard of, and elevate them into heaven-on-earth without any reason why. Or you’re in an environment where the adults are naive and unsophisticated and THEY think that all opportunities in life accrue to those who go to Stanford or a handful of other schools.

Don’t perpetuate that ignorance. Her job right now is to develop herself fully to be the kind of person she wants to be and can be, and then find colleges that will enhance and support that. Not to twist herself into a pretzel to try to be the person Stanford likes in some belief that Stanford is the meaning of life.

“As her most passionate supporter, the last thing I want for her is for all the time she spends perfecting each one of her applications to go to waste when her chances of getting in are slim.”

You’re putting the cart before the horse. If she pursues extracurriculars because they are interesting to her and help her develop and express her passions, then no time spent on them will ever be a “waste.” If, on the other hand, she pursues extracurriculars just for the sake of checking off a box and hoping that they get her entry into selective schools, then indeed all that time is a “waste.”

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Any time when Pizzagirl and I are in agreement, I think our advice is virtually certainly correct. :slight_smile:

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Well, there IS a wind chill advisory where I live, so SOMETHING is freezing over right around now! :slight_smile: back at you, QM!

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" Her job right now is to develop herself fully to be the kind of person she wants to be and can be, and then find colleges that will enhance and support that. Not to twist herself into a pretzel to try to be the person Stanford likes in some belief that Stanford is the meaning of life." Exactly. But the OP doesn’t strike me as the kind of parent who is going to listen to this advice. Any parent who’s had their sophomore child take the SAT already and is already filling out college applications and yet comes on here and says their child needs to be pushed more is not going to listen to you.

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Badminton-- OP, are you international?

About ECs: the higher the tier she aims for, the more they can look for the ability to manage academics and engagements. The ability to balance is an important attribute they want in their class. And that can mean a combo of academics, school participation, and something outside the hs box. The latter can be a mix of fun, family expectations (eg, kids involved with their religious groups) and responsibilities.

I don’t like the talk of “padding” because not everything we take on in life is about our deep fire for it. IRL, we make choices for various reasons. If a kid chooses to do something related to his future goals or get involved with a non-profit, that shouldn’t be put down as just for the flash. Adcoms will recognize the awareness, willingness and experience.

Agree, she looks in good shape, for a soph.

Totally agree, QM, that Stanford likes the growth mindset concept. Yeppers. It’s a super descriptive phrase.

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“Any parent who’s had their sophomore child take the SAT already and is already filling out college applications and yet comes on here and says their child needs to be pushed more is not going to listen to you.”

I can’t imagine any reason for taking an SAT before junior year, except for applying to a summer program which might require it. I could understand taking practice tests, perhaps, but not the real one.

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@worriedmom12 I think just about every parent on CC wants to see their child realize his/her potential, and gain acceptance to the best possible school that is a good fit and is affordable. So I do think some posters on this thread were just a bit judgmental. Your second post, OTOH, was thoughtful, generous and struck a nice note. You’re a great example to your daughter.

First, on Stanford. Just about every student should apply to his or her dream school, in my opinion. You and your daughter should go through the Common Data Set for Stanford together. (If you don’t know how to read it, take just a little time beforehand to learn what the CDS does, and how to interpret it.) This will provide her with the stark realities of just how difficult it is for anyone to gain admission to one of the top universities in the world. This isn’t meant to be an exercise to discourage her. Just one to show her that being successful requires a substantial, prolonged effort.

Second, perhaps the best thing you can do is to encourage her to develop a strong list of reaches/matches/safeties, each of which she would be enthusiastic about attending. Take her to visit numerous schools (my D visited 20 in order to find 8 or 9 where she could really picture herself; we started the summer before her junior year). This way, if she doesn’t get admitted to her dream school, you’ll have the confidence that she will be on a campus that she will really be able to make her own.

Third, there is a difference between ECs and a “hook.” Soroban is your daughter’s hook. I have to confess that I had no idea what it was, but I looked it up on Wikipedia. Very cool. It really sets her apart. Perhaps she could write an article about it for a magazine, start a blog, or start a club. My D’s hook was art. She has drawn since she was two, and is really skilled. Still, we had to “push” her to enter statewide competitions, etc. She now has an impressive resume of awards, but without our strong encouragement she would not have had some of those early freshman & sophomore awards. (By senior year, the awards are pretty much too late for the college apps.) So I disagree with those parents who say to “relax.” Even though my D hopes to go into the sciences, she has been able to submit a killer portfolio to most of her schools, and I have to believe that has made an impact given some of the merit awards she has received.

Last, the importance of leadership cannot be overstated, particularly at the elite schools. We went to an open house at Kenyon where they said that they look for evidence of leadership on every app. One nervous father said that his child was in the marching band, and only one of the 4 can be a squad leader. The admissions rep’s reply was, “we are looking for leaders.” So, although your daughter may not necessarily start a company, leadership experience would definitely help to further set her apart, in a very crowded field.

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MWDad, marching band is a huge commitment in time and responsibility, with high expectations. The rep’s answer seems a bit canned, non-committal. The search isn’t just about titles. Many kids show leadership through the commitments they do choose to make, even without some official title. The issue is more for those kids who just “participate” or do X randomly. “I’m in the X club.” Or who pursue a “title” by "founding"some dubious club. You can show leadership mentality and spirit in many ways.

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Leadership is a quality that can encompass “president of the xyz club,” but can also be manifested in a whole host of differing ways.

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Maybe for you, but I was very specifically noting the challenges of sport competition. Some kids find it relatively easy to rise to the top academically, consequently, they don’t have the opportunity to wrestle with the finer points of effort and excellence. Sport is just another endeavor in which to find those challenges.
As is music and, yes, the performing arts.

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Your D’s scores are solid and even as they are now will get her into most except the most tippy top schools. However, is that even her goal? What you should do now (its good you’re starting early), is start to look at what kinds of schools she may be interested in. What geographic area, what is her area of interest (not pinning her down to a major), big/small, lots of school spirit or nerdy laid back. Then after you have a list of about 20, see where she falls in their stats. Look up the College Data Set for each of them and you can get a great idea of what they look for. For some schools that have a holistic approach, then rigor of your high school schedule and ECs are important. There are other schools where you are almost an auto admit if you hit a certain score on the SAT/ACT. Until you at least get some sense of where she is headed, you are treading water aimlessly.

For now, if she wants to go to a more selective school, make sure that her schedule is the most rigorous one she can take. These schools do not compare students across schools per se because offerings across different schools can vary drastically. All she can do is show she took the most rigorous courseload available to her. Her counselor will have to denote this in their recommendation so it is very important.

If she belongs to some groups as a sophomore, tell her to try to get into a leadership position if possible. Run for something, be a committee chair (like chairing the spring dance committee or something). Do not make her go out and get random ECs just for the sake of making her transcript look good. As someone said upthread, sincerity will come through in her application. They will know if she is just doing it to have a longer list.

Congrats on taking this on now. So many parents wait until the end of junior to focus their kid. By then it is too late sometimes to make any real change. Good luck to you and your D!!

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Pardon me if I missed this when skimming responses, but I wanted to mention that the SAT I format will change March of next year. I had planned to have my sophomore take the exam next fall, but after sitting for the PSAT this fall and also realizing how many of his fall Saturdays were booked with ECs, he has decided to take the exam this March, as winter is a quieter athletic and EC time for him.

Given your D’s excellent PSAT score, she should consider taking the SAT March or May/June (whichever month she is not taking the Math II Subject Test, as Marian pointed out). If this spring does not work out, certainly schedule it for Oct or Nov.

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@lookingforward Yep, marching band is a huge commitment (spent 4 years in H.S., 4 years in college; and as a drummer we had additional practice time for our section). I think it is safe to assume the Kenyon rep had not been in a band! :slight_smile:

@pizzagirl Agree entirely that leadership is a quality, and not just a title. And a GC can talk about a particular student’s leadership qualities in the GC’s letter. But, frankly, many adcoms need to see some titles, too. The last two student council presidents at my D’s H.S. are both at Ivies now.

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Stanford is a beautiful school with fantastic programs. Of course kids are going to love it and it’s very normal for a Sophomore to pine after a school largely because they’ve heard of it before. It’s perfectly reasonable to have a “dream” school and Stanford gives lots of valid reasons to be one. Of course, it’s hard to get into. We personally know many phenomenal applicants and only two to get into Stanford. One starred in 3 Broadway shows and countless national tours and high level regionals by 17 (on top of perfect grades and high test scores.) The other actually cured something with her own medical research. Stanford specifically likes “notables”… those kids in the headlines for doing remarkable, adult things. But again, no reason for your child not to apply and wish.

The problems occur when a kid is tunnel visioned and trying to tailor themselves for a particular school instead of growing the way that feels right to them (those kids we know accepted to Stanford were internally driven to their achievements… not to get into Stanford.) The problem is when they insist on applying to every Ivy league and Ivy caliber school even though they are all different and wouldn’t all be a good fit. The problem is when they aren’t also looking for good matches and safeties they can get into AND afford. No doubt you can get a good education at those schools but not necessarily a BETTER education. A kid might have more opportunity at a lower tier school and that is nothing to sneeze at.

Encourage her to figure out the exact reasons she loves Stanford and look for those qualities in other, more attainable schools (and they are out there I promise.) It can help her narrow the field.