Agree about Tufts. We should have probably visited Boston College as well when we were in Boston to compare the two
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Based on what youâve shared and that there is no preferred school, I also wouldnât encourage ED. But, if your D truly doesnât have a preference but is insisting on EDing, Tufts and Vandy fill a good chunk of their class in ED so IMO, those are the two on the list to focus on since thatâs where the bump is more pronounced.
I also agree that Tufts has a quirky artsy vibe. I donât know many people that had both schools on the same list.
As far as submitting scores, Iâd also encourage a discussion with your school GC. TO has made is so much more difficult. Both Vandy and Tufts are reporting the 25th percentile as a 34, with 40-50% of students submitting scores.
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Itâs hard to know because schools arenât transparent about this (generally.)
I also donât know how your Dâs score compares to her peers, and/or say the top 10% of her class. At Vandy, a (probable) majority of enrolled students (donât see admitted student data) did not apply with scores according to the 23-24 CDS: Common Data Set | Office of Data and Strategic Analytics (DSA) | Vanderbilt University
I would have your D speak with her counselor about the decision to submit scores or not. Her counselor should know more about what these schools expect from this HS.
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Unfortunately a 33 is not a good score when the school shows a 34-36 25/75 split.
Yes 25% are 34 or below but that might be mainly athletes or other hooked.
A 33 is obviously FANTASTIC but not at Vandy.
Your question is valid and no one but admissions could truly answer. Some schools, like BU, do but most give a generic - if you feel it helps your app, etc.
Will someone think she had a 25 and hold against her - no way to know.
What we donât know is what % submitted a test. The last CDS is two years old. On that it was 61% so 39% didnât. The 23/24 CDS is blank for some reason.
Correction - wasnât populating on the phone - on my PC, 51% submitted - so while enrolled kids arenât submitting 33s en masse (certainly some are and maybe lower) - only 51% are submitting at all. Unfortunately the CDS breaks out 30-36 but not tighter and 99.8% are a 30-36 which doesnât show much.
Iâm not an AO. If I were guessing Iâd lean your daughter toward not in ED or RD. But itâs not relevant. If it truly becomes the top choice, itâs worth the app. The far majority of EDs will not get in but itâs GREAT that these kids try.
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Looking at Naviance, Vandy has admitted 1 person from her HS out of 15 in the last 2 years, although we donât know if they applied ED or RD. The student who got in was the valedictorian (we were told by another family)âŠNot particularly encouraging as far as admission chances 
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Itâs ok. I wanted both my kids to get turned down. One did at Vandy (34 act in 2019).
Itâs ok. Itâs why you apply to many including targets and most importantly safeties.
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Wake Forest has rolling ED. One can ED there in September and have a decision in October, giving an applicant another shot at ED for one of the other schools in case of a denial.
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Not an AO and we donât know how good the LORs, essay, interview will be but statistically (gpa and test), this student will get in Wake ED IMHO.
But thatâs precisely why they shouldnât apply unless they can get there when school is in session.
Itâs not the same as the other three.
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Thanks, we didnât know this
Talk your counselor about this strategy because they have to approve it (some counselors wonât sign a second ED1 contract.)
If doing this it is best to apply to wake with their own app which is now available in print only (yep). That way you donât have to contact the common app peeps to undo the first ED contract should she get deferred or denied by wake in ED.
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Agree to some extent that she has the right profile to be admitted ED. If she comes from a school that regularly sends several there ED confers an advantage.
We live near Nashville. The top high schools there had several âin the zoneâ students denied by Wake in ED last year due to the larger number of kids wanting to attend. Montgomery Bell Academy, for example, sends about 3-4 a year there, but more apply. Several were denied this year, probably due to informal limits on students per high school. I got an earful from a friend whose qualified children got waitlisted. The common data set for last year shows 32-34 as the ACT midpoint. However, since the school is test optional, itâs hard to tell what that means.
Wake classes start August 26th, so she would have plenty of time to visit during the school year, apply, and get a decision before ED deadlines at the three other schools. If itâs her top pick she should apply by the end of September.
DD was admitted RD and DS applied ED. DS submitted his applcation at the beginning of September and had his admission letter the first week of October. When DD applied in 2016 the ACT range was 28-32 and when DS applied in 2019 it was 30-33, so it has gone up.
We had a good friend who is a department head at Vanderbilt. In her department most of the students have 35 or 36 ACT scores. Itâs a tough admit, ED or RD. Her own son was denied and had a pretty good ACT score.
Circling back around, if she visits Wake and likes it the most, she should apply as early as possible so she has another ED shot if denied or waitlisted.
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Very valuable insight, thanks. Donât you think though that the test score ranges moving up is just an illusion because of schools going test optional? Nationwide statistics show a a consistent trend of test scores actually going down. So Wakeâs real ACT range now is probably at best the same as what it was in 2016 if the test scores of everyone enrolled were included.
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Thereâs likely no way to know but only 48% submitted last year - so I think youâre not off and that the 33 shows nicely.
Funny - student in my neighborhood - donât know her - has a going to Wake sign. Itâs the worst sign - very blah (white with black font) - that they put out.
Iâm also in suburban Nashville.
My daughter hated WFU - so forgetting admission chances, you want to get there.
There were so many schools on my kidâs pre list that came off the excited list once we visited - Wake being one. So you never know - it could happen to your daughter too but thatâs why the visit is a must.
Iâm a fan of the place though - saw Billy Joel and Paul McCartney there (well it;s good for me but the stadium isnât on campus.
Given your full pay status, thatâs another âplusâ for schools like Tufts, Wake, and Miami.
With your daughterâs stats- there are tons of schools that will love her - love her with acceptances and money!! Miami, I suspect will be one, to love her with both.
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Iâm not sure and thereâs no way to know. Wake Forest has been test-optional since 2009 and the admission process relies heavily on inverviews.
The students we know who have been turned down in RD (including our VU profâs son!) submitted ACT scores, most in the 33-34 range. The three I can recall ended up at Case Western, Tulane, and William and Mary.
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We have a visit to Wake planned for late July, although I agree that visiting when the school is in session would be better.
We like William and Mary as well, although havenât visited. Decided against Tulane and Case Western because of their locations
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These are all very competitive schools.
I was just in Cleveland and did the drive from downtown (was at the Rock Hall) to Little Italy - you go through Case. Cleveland is great. New Orleans is an acquired taste
Those are two more - very hard admits - Tulane especially. My sonâs valedictorian went to Vandy, turned down at Tulane.
W&M is much more isolated. Itâs easy to like a school on paper - but you just donât know until youâve been. My daughter loved Wake, Elon, Wake Forest, James Madison, and Miami of Ohio - and all were swiftly removed immediate upon leaving campus (well she removed them before leaving but didinât note it until the visit was done - except GW where we left mid tour). All were on her - Iâd love this school list. So saying we like this - doesnât mean - we like this!!!
If you are going to see W&M, hop over to U of Richmond - a larger LAC with a b school (which Vandy, Tufts donât have but Miami and Wake do - another âdifferenceâ in the student body - even though you are studying econ.
Whos is on your list thatâs a safety?
U of Denver fits - other than the other side of the country - would be a safety for you. American too but youâd need to demonstrate interest to ensure an acceptance.
As for Wake and tests, in 2017/18 , so pre covid, they had 92% of enrollees submit - per the CDS - with a 28-32 split.
In 2023/24, 48% with a 32-34.
You can do paralysis by analysis (god knows I do) but in the end, just make sure you have the most important school on the list - which is your safety - your assured, sheâd love to go - which is that school?
Until you have that, your list is - risky.
While I think U Miami will happen - itâs certainly not assured - not at a school that admitted 18.5% overall - and females only at a 16.2% clip.
You are mentioning all great schools - and all are possible - but rejection is also possible.
Please account for this in your search!!!
Good luck.
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Looks from discussing above ED to Vandy is a waste. Same maybe with Tufts.
I agree that student needs absolutely love school to ED. If two out of 4 are unlikely and she absolutely wants ED, she needs to figure should it be Wake or Miami. They are very different. Given that she can get to both RD then why bother with ED? Are there other schools that she may fall in love?
There are many schools that will love your money. Some can give your daughter even a scholarship that she and you may appreciate.
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I donât disagree, although am curious if you reach that conclusion about ED to Vandy or Tufts entirely based on the ACT score. Around 60% of the enrolled reported test scores at both. The real ranges is certainly lower than the interquartile ranges based on those who submit. Iâm thinking a waste would be applying ED to a school that would admit her RD anywayâŠ
Safeties are some great state schools in the Southeast
Again ED isnât a game.
Some schools, like Brown, says ED is no lift. Just earlier notice.
If you get in ED, youâll never know if you would have gotten in RD. So you canât label it a waste.
The reality is 25% of Vandyâs enrolled had a 34 or less.
Sure if 100% reported, itâd be lower. But 100% doesnât and Vandy doesnât want to see the 34 go down.
So showing a 33 may work or it may toss you for bringing down the average whereas not reporting could look better.
Thereâs no way to know.
Even Miami which I âthinkâ there are good odds even RD but yet they turn down 5/6 females overall. Pull out ED, even more.
If thereâs a top choice, ED.
Now you donât have budget concerns. Tufts = no merit. WF = merit to few. Vandy - has some competitive half and full scholarships. How does ED impact those ?
I donât know anyone who got into Miami without a $25k plus merit. But if you appply ED, why would they give to you ?? Today they say itâs $28k. Would you like to have that money ? Miami pays it bcuz they know they need to discount to attract kids. Think about this. Miamiâs yield is a tad over 25%. They admitted 8900 kids. They WL - nearly 22k. Think about that. So they have to fight for each customer - except the 986 early kids. Take them out of the 2300 enrolled and the yield is much lower. So in many ways, they need you (more than you do them).
In the end, these schools arenât the same. Visit again.
Or donât ED.
I didnât allow either kid to.
That said if your kid is in at UGA at $35k or U of SC Honors at $30-35k or FSU at $25k or Bama at $20k - are you still spending the $95k?
Thatâs a $300k delta over four years.
I think the answer is yes, you are based on your first post but since you mentioned SE flagships I just want to make sure. Because when that equation pops up for some and they think of stroking that check, they change. And quick. ED doesnât allow this option.
I see it every year with Vandy accepted here in Nashville ending up in Tuscaloosa and Knoxville. It wasnât their original plan til they realized how much theyâd save and get a similar outcome, especially if grad school was next.
Just things to think about.
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