Right, but they don’t encourage kids who are undecided between four schools to ED. In my experience, they work closely with the student to identify fit. My student was down to two schools at the top of their list. They had very similar programs, locations and vibes, unlike the variety in the OP’s list. The advisor told my student — and I’m paraphrasing here — “all things being equal, I think you should apply ED to [School A] because they tend to like students with your profile a little more.”
We talked to our student after the meeting and asked how it went, and they shared the advice they were given. I said, “strange, you don’t seem psyched about that.” That’s when our student said, “yeah, because that would take away any chance of me attending [School B].” Well, that was clarifying. The ED advice had actually caused a true favorite to emerge from the two.
I’m not anti-ED. My student attends their ED school. I am against crowdsourcing the ED choice, however.
Look, it’s a hard decision, but it’s one the student owns in consultation with their advisor and family. We can’t relieve them from that work because they will live with the consequences. I’m a stranger on the internet — no one should make a massive financial or life choice based on which school I like.
At some schools it does, at others it doesn’t (and it’s not always the same for each student)….all we can do is listen to what the AOs directly say, look at proportion of full pays, and do the research/math with hooked students. IME some private school counselors are reacting to parents and their ‘demands’.
We don’t even know how many students are accepted ED at Tufts so it’s difficult to say there’s an advantage. Do Tufts AOs directly tell counselors there is no advantage to ED? Yep. Do I think there is one for full pay students? Yep.
I also think people underestimate the number of hooked students going thru ED at a school like Tufts, just to take one example. Again we don’t know these numbers for just ED, some we don’t know for the entire population. We do know that 12% of the total received Pell Grants, 11% were first gen (likely overlap between those), 75 full support athletes estimated in ED, maybe another 75 or so with soft support (some in ED/some in RD), 30 QB matches (all ED class of 2028 numbers, more QB students would go thru RD as well), some number coming thru other access orgs and Tufts host communities, URM (53% of the 2027 class were POC including Asian), some number for legacies, some number for development/President/Dean’s list kids.
I agree that many kids would be happy at any number of schools. Not being able to discern a preference between Miami and Tufts (for example) is another thing entirely. With that said, OP’s D hasn’t visited Wake, nor done all her research yet and I expect she will have a preference by the time ED apps are due.
I don’t know the details, but it’s also not uncommon for a parent to seek out info here in order to gently guide their kid to a happy outcome. If that is what OP is doing, that’s what’s we are here to support.
Agree. I would gently suggest the OP advise their student to focus on a favorite school and then decide which application pathway to take with that school. If their student cannot do that by an ED deadline, that is fine, even at the cost of a perceived ED “boost.”
We play the ED game…to a point. I am a firm believer in no school being a “dream school” and that kids will find their place at many colleges/universities. When D24 was going through the college application process, she hated every minute of it. So when her top two choices were Brown & Tufts, based on the acceptance rates shown in Scoir, it was a no brainer for her to ED to Tufts. She wanted to be done with the process as quickly as possible, and she chose well as she was accepted in ED. As S26 starts the process, we are fully supportive of him EDing to a “good chance” and being done early.
Now my thoughts on OP’s situation: I agree with the other commenters who have said Vandy is a wasted ED application. Having watched some extremely talented, smart kids get denied and or waitlisted (some even legacies), I think its a very unlikely admit.
I also agree that Tufts does not really fall in line with Miami, Vandy, and Wake in terms of student body. We did not look at Wake, Vandy or Miami for D24 bcs they are not the right fit for her…so I would encourage your daughter to do a little more reflection on what type of student body she wants.
I think Wake is an outlier out of those 4 in terms of opportunities near the college. And I would definitely visit before making an ED decision. As a side note, my nephew applied ED to Wake and they dragged his decision on for months, so just know that EDing early to Wake does not guarantee enough time to ED to another school, if Wake comes back as a no (interestingly, he ended up a Miami).
Other than that, happy to answer any questions about Tufts (though my knowledge is still quite limited right now)!
Appreciate the insight and, as others have pointed out, Tufts may not be a good choice considering she would probably prefer the environment at any of the other 3 on the list. Given that she really likes the Boston area, I wonder if we should look into Boston College as well.
Here’s the other thing and it’s awesome you say she’s 17 and it’s unknown.
So many come on here and want to be on Wall Street or consultants. At 17, as you say, she doesn’t know what she doesn’t know.
But if she wanted that, Miami might not be the right choice.
I’ll disagree with @cityran a bit. I agree Vandy is not likely but I don’t think there’s no chance - if EDing. I am also not in the camp that an ED rejection is a waste. Most EDs at top schools are rejections - but the students have tried and kudos.
This student, through their accomplishment, has earned the right to apply anywhere.
And there are more than 4 mid size schools.
OP mentions BC. Is the student Catholic ? Would they thrive in a religious environment ? What about a school like Rochester or a bit bigger, a Syracuse which is a parallel to Miami. Or an American or Denver.
Even if the student were shut out on these four, there are other similar options.
With a properly constructed list, there can be many great options for this student, perhaps including some of these four.
Wake does have a unique, rolling ED option, which can provide three bites at the ED apple. A student who submits by Labor Day can hear by mid October. (Not sure what happened with the example you raised.)
“In the way of simple math - compare ED acceptance rate vs. RD acceptance rate even when you account for athletes, etc. The advantage is obvious.”
No.
Any college which is providing free tuition (or heavily discounted tuition) to children of faculty and staff- all those kids are in the early pool. Except the true “Kid, you aren’t getting in” ones. Athletes- whether being recruited or not- if they’ve met the coach and there’s a high probability of solid play time. Children of influential alums. Children of mega donors- whether alums or not. This is who is in the ED admissions pile. That’s why the numbers look so astonishing. Your kid isn’t being compared to these kids.
There are MANY kids who have a strong first choice “I’d go here without looking back” by September of senior year. And maybe your kid will be among them.
But absent that strong first choice, I think playing the casino with some game theory strategy in mind often backfires.
A neighbor of mine is going to be dragging their son off to college in August like he’s been sentenced to four years in the federal penitentiary. He applied ED (because he felt he had to… that’s all anyone was talking about in his HS last fall), got in, enjoyed his cake and wearing the sweatshirt for a while.
And then buyers remorse kicked in. And then he saw friends getting in to places which sounded better/higher quality/nicer location/more choices of housing, major, EC’s, etc. and the remorse turned to “why didn’t you stop me”. Parents are still flummoxed- it was his first choice! Except it wasn’t. It was the “modestly better of the current options” last October, which is not the same thing as a first choice. And everyone told him “It’s simple math… the advantage is obvious”. But now he’s got to live there for four years.
Parents told him in May “you can decline the offer, take a gap year; transfer if you hate it” which in no way has made him a happier camper. It’s just dulled the misery a little bit for now. So he’s going. I hope he figures it out.
Do you think this applies to ED2 as well?Presumably that pile doesn’t include athletes, legacy, donor kids, etc. any more so the bump in admission chances could be more realistic. Just a hypothesis.
It will include some, but you are right – many of the preferred students will be gone.
(Not all, nut many.) It’s a different pool though because it now includes the kids who didn’t make the cut at the SCEA schools. So the kid who had a strong application but didn’t get into Harvard may decide to do ED2 at Tufts.
It’s very hard to get data breaking down ED1 from ED2. From the school’s pov, they are the binding decisions that are made before they make RD decisions. I don’t think you can game this.
I think a kid who is at risk of regretting an ED application- i.e. not 100% sure- should not play at this casino.
It’s surprising how different the landscape looks in April vs. September for a lot of kids. If your kid is sure- then great- apply early, cross your fingers, and don’t plan any elaborate events for Xmas week when she may be frantically doing applications. But if she’s not sure-- then applying to a well chosen list of affordable options she is excited about, with a decision deferred until she knows exactly where she’s been accepted- is likely the easier path for the entire family.
Dragging a kid to a college they used to love but that was before they fell in love with somewhere else? Not fun.
I agree with everything you’ve said and would add that we directly asked many AOs about the acceptance rate of ED1 vs ED2 and whether the “bump” for an unhooked applicant is better for ED1 vs ED2. Some wouldn’t answer but for those that did, every single one said the ED1 bump is better than the ED2.
Also in response to the possibility of buyers remorse/second thoughts if you get in ED. It’s definitely a thing and I think it happens a lot but to varying degrees. Very normal to wonder “what if” but The example being discussed above is quite extreme.
The kid who ED’s at (pick one) Fairfield, BC, Providence, Holy Cross to be “one and done” and then sees a kid with similar stats get into Notre Dame or Georgetown RD-- that’s who feels the sting of the ED game theory gone awry. Or substitute Conn College, Skidmore, Vassar, Colby… and then sees a kid with a lower class rank and less rigor get accepted to Bowdoin or Middlebury.
Or the one I REALLY felt sorry for was the kid who put in (reluctantly) an ED app at Brandeis-- which was in her top 6 or so, but not the favorite-- and gritted her teeth that her “frenemy” (a mean girl with similar stats but sort of a study nerd- no real EC’s or leadership)- got into Dartmouth. Dartmouth had been the kid’s first choice but she was told by EVERYONE (including a well meaning but stressed out/overworked GC) “Don’t waste your Early application” or “don’t you want be done by Christmas?”
So I’m an enthusiastic advocate of “ED is for your top top top first choice, not for gaming the stats”.
