Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, Tufts, or UMiami for ED1?

College Search & Lists
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I have some thoughts. First of all, saying I like Boston so Tufts seems interesting is like saying I like NYC, so I am considering Vassar College. :slightly_smiling_face: I mean, Tufts is a great school, lovely campus, took a class there one summer towards my degree, but it is a 30 minute train ride to Boston and then a T ride from there to anywhere else. Which brings me to Boston College - Boston College is not in Boston no matter what it says in the name. Its an hour T-ride to downtown Boston. If she likes Boston, why arenā€™t people mentioning schools actually in or adjacent to Boston? Like Boston University, Northeastern, MIT, Harvard, UMASS Boston, or even Suffolk U?

Now Iā€™ll get to the stats - not really a lot of info was given about the student. But on the very little info given, I donā€™t know why nobody is really saying this. Vanderbilt isnā€™t a slight reach, or a mild reach it is a huge reach for anyone. Vanderbiltā€™s acceptance rate has been extremely low the last several years and number of applications insanely high. 4.5 weighted GPA out of 5? top 5% out of how many? In my daughterā€™s class top 5% would have been top 36. In a class of 100, it would be top 5. That doesnā€™t mean I donā€™t think your daughter should not apply; I think if a student has a dream school they should apply, but they should also be aware of the chances of being accepted. They should temper expectations. Her stats are good, but there will be a lot of kids submitting 1600 SAT scores and 35s and better GPAs. So, her essays and recommendation letters will have to be absolutely top notch for sure. You didnā€™t really provide a lot of detail on her stats, so its hard to really say how she would stack up. But you can scan through various threads, people post very detailed stats in their ā€œChance meā€ posts. Odds of getting into Vanderbilt these days are about the same as the odds of getting into Princeton or Harvard. Vandy is currently one of the toughest schools in the country to get accepted into. Tufts is a reach based on the stats that were provided as well.

If she likes Boston, I would encourage looking at Boston University. Her stats look better for BU, but BUs acceptance rates have also really shrunk. BU Class of 2028 avg GPA 4.0, SAT 1497, ACT 33 - 11% acceptance rate
Tufts 10%, Vanderbilt 5%, BC 15%, Wake about 16%
Northeastern you have to show tons and tons of interest in, and apply EA most of their class is accepted EA1 or EA2. They get like 80 million applications and like to yield protect.
Harvard and MIT are in the 4% range

I donā€™t know much about Wake Forest other than they are definitely not in a city and I discourage anything to do with Florida. :man_shrugging:

Final thoughts on ED/EA - someone can probably point to it, but there is a book written by a former (or current?) admissions advisor who says not only is there no advantage to applying ED/EA to the top schools (think Ivy, Ivy Plus - and I think Vandy falls in the Ivy Plus category), there is a disadvantage because most of the slot are going to be taken by ALDC applicants. So, although the acceptance rate may be slightly higher or even a lot higher, the number of slots that go to unhooked applicants is less than 0.5% or something insane like that. I donā€™ recall the exact number.

Anyway, again I encourage her to apply to the school she likes, with proper expectations. I donā€™t think ED/EA is necessary unless she really falls in love with a school.

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Brandeis ? BU ? NEU although co op oriented. Brown ?

Two classes are required at BC. That said they also have a Jewish Studies minor.

If BC, maybe check out Holy Cross too but likely the same issues religious wise.

Totally different but just for fun and giggles take a look at Babson given the Econ interest.

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123

Where exactly did you see this? There isnā€™t a school in the country where this is the case.

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124

Thanks. The 4.5 is out of 5. To get 5 one would have to get an A in every single class, and every single class they take in high school would have to be AP. The school is a public HS ranked in the top 10 in the state.

Curious why you would discourage anyone from associating with Florida thoughā€¦it is ranked by US News as the top state in economic and educational growth.

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125

Tell us a bit more about your geography, D ECs and further stats (UW GPA, AP test scores) and her likes and dislikes and future career interests. It might be helpful to inform the conversation, which should be ongoing as you and D increase the rigor of your search. Most folks here will give you their best shot based on experience but you are giving too little info.

BTW, itā€™s hard to imagine a scenario in which anyone should take WF or UMiami over in-state UVA, unless there is a particular career path not available at UVA.

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126

I hear you. Although donā€™t forget that the interquartile test score range that Vandy posts is based on 60% of the enrolled students submitting scores. Thatā€™s like, a little more than half. Maybe the other half arenā€™t 80 hours a week IB or consulting company material :slight_smile:

127

You cite a perceived ED boost, then indicate an additional benefit is that your daughter might like it too. This is backwards.

Please remove the ED factor from the criteria. Find the school, then decide if ED is right. The focus on ED is distracting from the work of finding the right fit.

Does she like the city, the country, or the suburbs?

What does she hope to study?

Is she looking for strong school spirit where people get excited to attend games?

What activities does she hope to pursue?

What climate/weather?

Is she set on East Coast schools only?

Does Greek life appeal to her?

Does it matter if a school is religiously affiliated?

Does she want a vibrant social scene, or is she OK with a place where students spend Saturday in the library?

Does the diversity of the student body matter?

Does it matter if the school is politically active? If so, in which direction?

Does she want a pre-professional vibe, or would she prefer to stay up debating philosophy?

You get the idea. Just put ED aside for now. That question comes once she has a strong preference.

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128

It sounds like you are on the typical (and how UF ranks) with a .5 for Honors and +1 for AP.

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129

Some people have political bias against Florida - and many professors have openly stated they are seeking to leave due to rules being implemented in the educational system.

In short, some believe that the right to free speech/expression, etc. is being taken away.

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130

Strange. I can see how from a young personā€™s perspective Florida would be very attractive in terms of opportunities, quality of life, and culture. Probably why it is one of the highest growth states, together with a number of others in the South.

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Itā€™s very polarizing as a state.

Obviously as people see the US News ranking, easier admittance than similarly ranked UNC, and a low cost, itā€™s attractive.

Others who are against the politics, including for females limited access to reproductive rights, might stay away.

But itā€™s no different than other schools that allowed encampments, etc. - some might stay away from those, etc.

The thing with Florida (and Georgia) - itā€™s likely tough for the top kids to leave the state - as they are bought to stay. The same with Alabama and why it attracts so many national merit and other scholars - they buy kids in.

To each their own.

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132

Yep. Hard to argue with free tuition if you have the GPA and test scores. Extremely successful in keeping top talent in the state. The evolution of the UGA acceptance rate over the years reveals the story. And they went TO only briefly I think

133

You are referring to ED, not EA.

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134

I apologize for not reading every post.

Why not remove ED right now while she figures out what she really wants? Keep in mind that what she thinks she wants in October may be different by the time May rolls aroundā€¦.or maybe not.

Wake Forest is not for everybody. My daughter loved itā€¦until she realized there were things about it that she really didnā€™t like. I liked it a lotā€¦but not for her. My husband did not like it at all. Same for Vanderbiltā€¦until she interviewed and was turned off by a few things that the interviewer said. There were things she loved, and things she did not.

Try not to put any school on a pedestalā€¦they all come with pros and cons. I would really put ED on the shelf unless she truly, truly has a first choice school, and it comes from her.

Just my opinionā€¦many may not agree.

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135

FWIW, the reason my kid liked both (but likes Wake more): liberal arts but with business programming, decent sports scene, near city but self-contained campus, good club sportsā€¦smart but not pretentious intellectual vibe. Donā€™t know about connections to Tufts and UMiami. I like the sense that education should also think about character (Wake has ā€œpro humanitateā€ thing ā€“ this is not something my kid is looking for, though).

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136

I was against ED until I saw D24s reaction to Vandy. From the moment we set foot on campus, we all could see her there. We were lucky in that we had 2 full days there where she went to a class and met with 3 students. Knowing how low admission chances are, we thought any advantage we could give her was worth considering. I personally think with ED there is an advantage in that the pool is smaller so easier to stand out and the schoo has a blank slate. In RD, for Vandy half the class is full. We visited many other schools and made sure she loved many but Vandy always had an edge. She did apply ED and got in. She was a little sad withdrawing at certain schools but that lasted for all of a day. She is THRILLED to be headed to her ED school. As far as scores, she submitted her 1530. I think Vandy cares about high scores so I donā€™t think Iā€™d submit below a1500 in most cases (donā€™t know how that correlates to ACT.)

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137

When DS was applying a couple years ago I looked at Common Data Set data for schools from pre-COVID/TO and after. It was interesting. Some schools jumped a ton, others not that much. I didnā€™t look at Vandy bc he wasnā€™t interested in it, but could be a way to get a better senseā€¦

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FWIW I agree ED makes sense for a clear first choice (and affordability.) I also agree there is likely an ED bump for a full pay unhooked student like OP at Vandy (just not as large a bump as it looks like before accounting for hooked ED applicants.)

Right, but in RD the school has to accept more students than in ED in order to account for yield. So, in RD (for Class of 2027, per '23-24 CDS I linked above) Vandy accepted 1,974 students to yield the ~752 slots that were still open, so ~38% RD yield. (Vandy accepted 870 in ED to for a total class size of 1,622, and likely didnā€™t yield 100% of those 870.)

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139

Vandyā€™s ED acceptance rate was around 15%, regular decision was 3.7%. Thatā€™s a huge advantage.

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140

Yes and no - athletes and other hooked (Questbridge, etc.) distort that a lot. Down to 3.7% - not saying that - but they distort it a lot.

Thereā€™s a lot of third party articles out there that say things like this and more.

But the ED rate you see isnā€™t the rate your student is facing - but itā€™s great advertising for the kid!! They should report an acceptance rate sans the already accepted who are told to apply ED.

ED benefits rich kids - I get this because while at a need blind school it shouldnā€™t matter, itā€™s the affluent that even understand early decision

30% to 50% Early Decision Acceptance Rates Are Fake

](30% to 50% Early Decision Acceptance Rates Are Fake | College Zoom)

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