When your child makes a different career choice than you expected

Parent Cafe
101

@aj725, I can’t answer any of those questions, and I don’t know if he can either, at this point. I think this is just the beginning of a formulation of a plan, and he’s going to talk to his theatre director about possibilities and ideas soon. Right now he’s just swamped with projects and tests, and probably isn’t able to do much else.

And yes, older brother has been the source for all things tech. I’m pretty sure the younger son completely respects his opinion (maybe too much), but he is full of confidence, and I don’t think there is any resentment, just admiration. They are rather different.

102

"I had a very poor relationship with my son for 7 years. I did not understand him and usually I am pretty good at understanding. My son wanted to be independent from a very early age. Like one day old.
And I liked giving him advice. That’s a bad combination.

You know your son so you know where to draw the lines with your son.

Instead of worrying, why not be excited? You can be excited. Your son may have found something he loves and you can share in this. This can be a very positive time in your family"

I never want to have a distant relationship with my kids, for any reason, ever. Not for a minute. I don’t think I could stand the thought, and fortunately they are VERY attached to their dogs, so I think they will always be kind to us. Maybe a minute or two of crankiness, but we’ve never had anything lingering with the kids. The younger one is pretty confident about drawing the line, we push too far and he lets us know instantly.

I think at some point, we’ll be excited. Especially if he gets a part where he gets paid. Even just a buck. Small steps.

103

"Although one side of my family is heavily pre-professionally oriented with a large numbers of engineers, they didn’t view a pre-professional major…even ones in engineering/CS as a guarantee of a “low risk career path”.

Part of this is having a few engineering relatives and their friends go through long periods of un/underemployment due to cyclical downturns in their respective fields before being rehired at the same/higher levels due to experience/licensing."

I think there have been downturns in every field. My parents (engineers) were unemployed for a full year. I vividly remember when we went on food stamps, when Boeing laid off many people after they lost the big cargo contract to Lockheed. Ironically, I went on to fly the Lockheed C-5 that put my family on food stamps. I don’t think having an engineering degree is any guarantee of employment, but it’s more of a certainty than some others. And right now, comp sci is as secure as it gets. Though nothing is ever secure. As ucbalumnus has suggested, there are many possibilities to consider with this kind of degree.

104

Similarly, my firm had a litigation associate who had a part-time performance gig with the LA Philharmonic. And I knew a lawyer at a TV network who regularly took summers off to tour with his punk rock band. Those are truly extraordinary people though.

105

I would not recommend an IT job for a CS graduate if he can get a design or development job. Not all design or development jobs are huge hours, and hours (long or short) do tend to be flexible in many such jobs. IT jobs also tend to be outsourced more often and more likely to the companies using low end H-1B visa holders.

106

Moreover, most supposedly “punch-clock” 40 hour/week IT jobs are in actual practice, more like 50-60 hours with some 70+ hours thrown in during emergencies IME. I’ve lived that and it’s not conducive to someone trying out for auditions at all.

It’s also not always as flexible as a programmer’s job where more of the work can be done remotely from home via terminal/virtual desktop connection if the employer agrees.

One possible exception to this is if he’s willing to become a system administrator…especially of unix type server systems*. While it’s can also be long hours of boredom with moments of sheer panic when the fires need to be put out, most/all of that job can be done anywhere with a decent terminal/virtual desktop connection. If one has the unix system administration skills, it’s also less competition as the barrier to entry to being a highly qualified and skilled unix sysadmin is much higher than being the equivalent on Windows server systems.

  • While one needs some CS programmer level skills to be a highly qualified proficient unix sysadmin, most CS graduates IME abhor this type of job as it's considered by most a "lower-level" job than being a software designer/engineer or programmer. One unix sysadmin friend joked that he was the "janitor/plumber/fireman" in the unix IT/computer technology world.
107

DS is in a fully funded PhD program in a STEM field at a highly reputable U. I still worry about whether he will have a job once he is done.

I started a Roth IRA in his name and contribute annually for his b’day present. Not a large amount but should be worth something in 50 years. Although this is legally ‘his’ money, he knows we expect him to not touch it. It gives me a bit of comfort knowing that it is there.

108

“I started a Roth IRA in his name and contribute annually for his b’day present. Not a large amount but should be worth something in 50 years. Although this is legally ‘his’ money, he knows we expect him to not touch it. It gives me a bit of comfort knowing that it is there”

I think that is a great idea, and something I always intended to do. However, I’m thinking it might be too much temptation to have if someone is pretty broke. A PhD in a STEM field is most definitely going to get a great job!

109

I can see helping out on health insurance bc no one should be without as the downside risk can be tremendous. BUT i can’t imagine contributing to an IRA for a grown adult. It’s one thing to put some money into one when they are kids; I have relatives that do that esp for kids who are totally spoiled with presents and clothing from both sides of the family when they are young and just don’t need anything else; I view it the same way as people who bought savings bonds for our generation.

But I am also a believer that a college grad (or 22 yr old non college grad) needs to have some skin in the game. If he wakes up at 40 and realizes his retirement account sits at 3k, while his peers have hundreds of thousands – he will have to find a way to catch up. And while he will have lost the benefit of growth and compounding over 18 yrs, he won’t be the first person on earth to have to figure out how to catch up. I just don’t see a kid’s retirement planning as a parent’s job esp. when the parent has provided an education that gave the kid every opportunity and the kid didn’t take it bc he had to pursue a “passion” for the arts. It makes it too “easy” on a kid if they know they have to make no effort to go beyond a paycheck to paycheck life because mom and dad will make sure he’s ok in the long haul. I’m sure I’d feel differently if I were a millionaire myself . . . .

110

“I can see helping out on health insurance bc no one should be without as the downside risk can be tremendous. BUT i can’t imagine contributing to an IRA for a grown adult. It’s one thing to put some money into one when they are kids; I have relatives that do that esp for kids who are totally spoiled with presents and clothing from both sides of the family when they are young and just don’t need anything else; I view it the same way as people who bought savings bonds for our generation.”

I can see the purpose of it. Many people put money in their kid’s Roth IRA’s as a way of passing on part of their estate tax free. You can’t put it in while they are young, as must have at least the same amount of income as they put in the Roth. And then the Roth grows for decades, tax free. Many young people can’t afford to put money away like that, and they lose the exponential accrual possibilities that time can give you.

But we haven’t done that. It’s hard to consider helping our kids with retirement until our own debt is paid off. I can see people having a philosophical disagreement with helping young people to fund their Roths, however, financially it’s a smart move.

111

PhD graduates in all fields face an unfavorable numbers game when looking for academic jobs that their degrees train them for. It is only in some STEM fields (perhaps engineering, computer science, math, statistics) where the PhD graduates are likely to find jobs in their fields easily.

http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110420/full/472276a.html says:

112

Which is odd, since Microsoft Windows is a more complex system that is more difficult and tedious to administer, but employers seem to have lower expectations of technical skills for that job compared to Unix system administration.

113

As I said, it is his birthday present every year. We started when he was a college freshman and had his first income and we plan to continue as long as he is a student. When he was in college, all his money came from us anyway and as a graduate student, his stipend is pretty bare bones. Once he has a real job, it will be his responsibility. The amount we contribute will not be enough, even with 50 years of compounding, to fund his retirement but it will be helpful. Also, as the account is already set up, it will be easier for him to simply contribute to it when his turn comes, rather than procrastinate about setting one up.

It’s not really any different than setting up a (very small) trust fund, just that it happens to grow tax free and presumably won’t be accessed for many years.

We plan to do the same for DD as well. Gotta be fair :smiley:

And @busdriver11, a STEM PhD unfortunately doesn’t guarantee a job that DS would necessarily want, esp if he decides to go into academia.

114

Didn’t realize that getting a PhD doesn’t help greatly with the job search, jeez, all that work—seems like it would make somebody a shoe in for an excellent position.

Putting money into a Roth is an excellent birthday present. We should consider that one day…when we actually have some extra money! Three more tuition payments, but who’s counting?

115

To me, bottom line is - do i want to encourage and support my child in pursuing their dreams, or do i want to discourage? I have been a supportive parent all their lives and I’m not going to quit now. A little backstory - both of my kids have been heavily involved in “show business” from an early age. Older D worked hard and had a passion, but not quite the natural talent and/or prized looks of her brother. We supported her decision to major in Musical Theater but always wondered whether she had the talent to make an adult career out of it. To our surprise, she discovered American history in college, ended up getting a double degree in MT and History and is working on her PhD now, Financially, still a risky proposition, but she is happy and thrilled to be pursuing a passion.

Younger S had much more success as a performer as a child, being blessed with natural talent, charm and angelic looks. But he had no passion for acting. He was offered many opportunities for a wider audience, especially with a certain Mouse company, but decided he’d just rather stay home and play video games. At 12, his voice changed and he discovered classical music/opera and his whole life changed. He had found a passion. And we have supported him all the way.

Sometimes my kids need financial support, sometimes they just need emotional support. But H and I are determined to continue to support as long as it is needed. Do I expect both kids to be able to, eventually, provide their own basic support? Of course, but for many years, probably until around age 30 for both, they will still need parental help occasionally. Our decision, and we are happy to do it in order to allow them to pursue passions. Every family is different. YMMV.

As far as worrying goes? I don’t think you ever stop worrying once you have children. I just try not to let it take over my life. For me, a strong faith and healthy prayer life helps!

116

As others have said, this is a great place to vent, to bite one’s nails, to fret and sweat. But try not to show that to your DS. Again as others have said, maintaining a good relationship with your DS is key, and he is going to do what he is going to do anyway, so you have two choices: take it or leave it. He sounds like a smart, level-headed kid who does have more interest in financial stability than your older s, so he will keep his eye on this variable. And he has probably developed excelled problem-solving skills in his college major, so… now he gets to use them!

My bro pulled away from the family for reasons no one really understands (mostly his crazy wife and their distorted beliefs about things), but anyway, his distance from the family broke my mother’s heart. Absolutely killed her. Don’t let that happen. You don’t have to like his decision, but you should support your son.

117

"I can see helping out on health insurance bc no one should be without as the downside risk can be tremendous. BUT i can’t imagine contributing to an IRA for a grown adult. "

We contribute to IRA’s for our (adult) kids. It’s a way of transferring wealth that’s smarter than waiting til the end and then transferring it. We also had them contribute the max possible to their 401K’s at work - even though that leaves them with tiny paychecks - and we made up the rest, because we thought it would both encourage them to save for the future and enable them to have some measure of enjoyment now. Both my kids are employed – one is in a low-paying field, the other is in a moderate-to-high paying field, and both live reasonably / frugally. I don’t know how this would change if they were in the performing arts. I think it might have to do with seriousness of purpose.

My IT guy at work is a professional musician. He does the 9 - 5 gig, doing word processing and information-technology stuff for us, and then at night he plays music. He’s taken off periodically to do tours. His band has quite a following in our area. It’s the best of both worlds for him - the security of the 9 - 5 and the ability to pursue his passion.

118

Just remember to be thankful that your kids are healthy enough to pursue their dreams! :slight_smile:

119

I didn’t read through all the posts and I am sure you are getting many perspectives. I will share mine and yes, there are nights when I lose sleep over this. Sorry, it is a bit long.

I have two D’s. Both had very good AP, SAT and GPA’s.Math and Science scores were very good as well. Both were offered some nice merit scholarships. Both are of creative mindset. D1 is a writer. Looking back through her childhood. She has always been a writer. In fact, she wrote a short story book through Amazon Kickstarter while she was in college. She is currently pursuing and MFA after a short internship before going for the MFA.

D2 loves science but she likes to get her hands dirty. We spent a lot of time visiting schools for her. From the start, her GC said she scored very high on the creative side and probably should follow that path. Of course, I didn’t want her to be a starving artist so I gently pushed her to more science based schools and we did visit some visual arts schools. She applied to only one visual arts school. The other schools had some arts but mostly science. When we visited, she asked questions about the science programs, etc… She did not seem to find that niche, whatever it was that she was looking for. The visual arts school offered her a nice scholarship. She liked the other students there and the location. The school was clear that it was going to be tough. They were not giving us fairytales. She still struggled with the decision. Finally, we let her off the hook and told her, it would be ok if she took the scholarship at the Visual Arts school. She could try it and if she didn’t like it, she could transfer out second year. So far so good. It is more difficult than she expected and they are doing a lot of hands on projects, which she likes. She is learning how to work in teams and present her ideas. Everyone there is really passionate about what they are doing. I think it would be a dream job for her work for National Geographic.

The bottom line for us was to let them do what they enjoy while they are young and can afford to take risks. I work with people with solid career choices but many are already burnt out by 40 One CS colleague is dreaming of opening a coffee shop so he can pursue his passion of coffee. Another finance professional actually left the corporate world to write. Another, a friend, left the communications field years ago to pursue CS for more money, then left CS because of the constant pressure and now is back doing public relations as she opened her own firm. I also work with scientists who left research and academics because of low pay. In corporate, they are given more options and better pay but they are already missing the research part, which they actually enjoyed.

My friend has three kids. One studied engineering, the other medical and the youngest became a pastry chef.
The engineer graduated while the economy was in crisis and works at a small shop near their home. The medical student got an admin job. I think she gave up the medical field because of the expense. The youngest one is happily baking cakes for a well known franchise. They are all living at home.

Finally, corporate no longer offers a solid path. Job uncertainty is always there. One of the best things a young person can do these days is do something you are really good at and that you enjoy, get known in your field so you can take it with you, wherever life leads you.

I cannot tell you not to worry because I do. However, we are a different generation. Each generation does things a little different. My parents worked for the sole purposed of putting food on the table. We went to college to get a solid job but that has not made people too happy either. Funny, even though my parents worked hard in some unpleasant jobs, they never really complained as my co-worker and friends do.

P.S. I asked her for 50% of her graduation gifts from family and opened a Roth IRA for her, so at least she has a small cushion in the future.

120

All “kids” are different. For my very independent D there was no post education financial “cut off” point. That’s all her. Frankly, I am surprised that she is letting me pay for her wedding next year. Like I told H we can spend some of the money we saved for her grad school education. I have always encouraged her to understand the financial risks and rewards in real life. But this has more to do with the way we raised her as an independent young woman than her pursuits in the arts. Maybe it’s because she lived in a household that depended on money made in the arts? I have never feared her dropping music because she had figured out how to create an interim financial stream. Whenever possible her jobs have been related to her art and she has always made it patently clear to any employers that her music comes first. Her passion is pretty strong still and her agent appreciates that. In short she sings all the time but will not sing for free. $-)