Hi! I’m rather stuck on whether to do ED2 at Swarthmore or Rice. I’ve done the net price calculators for both, and I’m very blessed to be able to afford both without going into an insane amount of debt; their financial aid packages should be about equal for me. I’m more stuck on which is a better fit.
Swarthmore
Pros:
I like the idea of a liberal arts college with lots of interdisciplinary study
The campus looks beautiful holy smokes
Lots of clubs I’m interested in
Terrific grad program acceptance rates
Small school which I like
Close to a big city (Philidelphia)
Excellent undergrad teaching
Cons:
Much more left-leaning and politically active than I really want to be, with some very extreme-sounding stories out there (I tend to be VERY moderate, leaning ever so slightly to the right)
Is the 30-minute drive to Philly too much to make happen regularly? I’m not sure
I don’t know if the courseload is too much to be involved in many extracurriculars. I really want to invest myself in many places on campus if possible.
Rice
Pros:
Excellent undergrad teaching
I like the size
Campus looks cool but not quite as cool as Swarthmore’s
Lots of clubs I like
In a big city (but it’s Houston so I’m not sure lol)
Ranks super highly in terms of student happiness/mental health
Feels like a more welcoming student body to diverse perceptions/backgrounds
Part of STARS and I’m from a very rural high school so maybe that will help? I’m not sure
Cons:
It’s super far from home
I don’t think I’d love the weather
I’ve heard bad things about Houston
My stats:
4.8 weighted GPA/4.0 unweighted
1460 SAT (perfect score on English, going to try again to superscore with a better math result)
White male from VERY rural North Carolina
Extracurriculars:
Cello for 8 years, 1st chair in 3 orchestras until being forced to quit due to finances
Quiz Bowl for 2 years, competed in A team in States
Over 400 hours volunteering at my church in tech and kids ministry
Done quite a few low-budget engineering projects with like arduino/3d printer and stuff
NHS Officer for 2 years- Treasurer position
Work for 4 years- 2 at Culvers as a cashier, 2 as a manager of an amazon reselling company where I developed an app to help with Merch by Amazon
Tutoring- 4 years in various subjects such as AP Gov, AP Lit, PreCalculus, and standardized testing like SAT and ACT
My essays are amazing according to my college counselor, so I really hope that’ll help. I know both of these schools are hard reaches, so my goal is to pretty much figure out if I’ll fit in/learn well in both communities, and if so which has the best chance of admissions for me. Thank y’all so much!
What is your class rank (approximate if your school doesn’t rank)? Does your school have a history of sending top students to top colleges?
Will you complete 4 years of classes in each of the core subject areas (Eng, Math, Sci, SS, Foreign lang)? What math class do you have senior year?
Why ED2? Are you applying ED1 elsewhere?
Will you be able to visit both schools? Done a virtual admission session at each?
Possibly, but neither of these schools is a member of the STARS network. Make sure to put this on your app somewhere.
In summary, I would choose the school you like best, it’s impossible to know if you have a better chance at one. Make sure you have a balanced list of colleges and at least one affordable safety you would be happy to attend.
The 25th percentile of Rice admits have a 1500 on the SAT. Unless you can get to, or preferably above, that score, I personally wouldn’t ED to Rice.
I am curious about:
It sound like you are a ‘middle of the road’ kind of person. I don’t think generic terms like ‘left’ or ‘right’ are very helpful in advising you. What specifically are you concerned about when it comes to politics and Swarthmore?
I’m ranked second. It does not have a history of sending kids to top schools, but we do have 2 other exceptional students this year. I have 4 years in everything but foreign language, and I’m taking AP Calc AB, which is the highest math level my school offers. I’m planning on applying ED1 at Vanderbilt. I cannot afford to visit either of the two schools, unfortunately, but I will be attending virtual sessions. I thankfully do have several safeties I’d genuinely be really happy to go to, I’d just rather make it to one of these schools with more opportunities.
It seems very anti-conservative in a way that does not promote discussion. I would love to talk to people about varying viewpoints, but it seems in a largely non-constructive way.
Obviously you are under no pressure to decide yet.
To me, while there are some points of overlap between these colleges, I think they are also sufficiently distinct such that I am not sure how these two in particular became your final two options for a hypothetical ED2 application. Like, obviously they are different size/formats, they are in different regions, they generally are considered as having at least somewhat different vibes, and so on. So normally if someone said they liked Swarthmore, Rice would not necessarily be the first school I would think to suggest they should also check out, nor vice versa.
So personally, it might be helpful to explain how exactly you decided on these two, and why not a bunch of other colleges that at least superficially would seem more like one or the other.
On just one very specific point–there is a train station basically on a corner of Swarthmore’s campus (where the modest local commercial district is also located) that will take you straight into Philly. As I recall it runs at least roughly hourly during most of the day, and more like every 20-30 minutes during peak commuting times. So you don’t need to drive and park and such if the train works for you.
I will note in my circles, Rice has a reputation for REALLY wanting you to have very specific, well-documented reasons for wanting to attend Rice. ED obviously is a good way to demonstrate commitment to attending, but they appear to want even more than that, to know that you know you have good reasons for making that commitment.
It will be kinda interesting to see how ED2 ends up working for Rice (it is new as of this year). I definitely would not hesitate to use it if it makes sense for all the normal reasons, but I do suspect you should still only consider it if you actually do have really good, thoughtful, specific reasons for loving Rice (which is totally possible because Rice is great in some very specific ways that some kids find very appealing).
I don’t know what that means. If you had specifics, it would certainly help, but if you don’t feel comfortable going into specifics on this forum I can respect that.
TBH, I think your stated reasons for attending Swarthmore are pretty generic. IMO, Macalester would be both a better fit and an easier admit. To my ear (or eye), it sounds like you chose Swarthmore because it is better known. As for Rice, I wouldn’t want to be caught there during a heat wave.
I echo previous comments that these two schools are really, really different. I’m curious as to why you chose these two specific schools out of all the schools out there.
A part of the puzzle that you did not mention – do you plan to attend grad school?
As a LAC grad myself, my advice is that you should really think about if LAC fits your expectations for your undergrad education. If you’re intellectually curious and passionate about learning across disciplines, LACs can be a wonderful place. Otherwise, they wouldn’t be the best fit.
You mention that you want to double major in a social justice related major. I will be honest in saying that these departments are highly left-leaning departments no matter what school you attend.
Like any political conversation in the US these days, the majority of the conversation is being dictated by the vast minority on the fringe. Swat is not different. There is no doubt that it is a liberal school, but there are plenty of conservatives on campus. Most importantly, I do think that the vast majority of the student population is interested in a rational, informed discussion.
The school’s Quaker roots still influence the feel of the school. If you look at the traditions of the school… I think you should expect there to be a diverse and active conversation, built on respect and learning. Here’s an example: the Collections at school.
Keep in mind, one-quarter of the students are non-US/dual citizens. They regularly enroll students from all US states. It’s a pretty diverse group.
I happen to agree with @31fan on this. I’ve seen my fair share of kids who have applied ED without visiting and then have had major changes of heart after arriving on campus in the fall. Since the OP is undecided between 2 very different schools, making that decision without visiting either but rather crowdsourcing opinions is not making an informed decision. Just my two cents.
I understand, but the reality is many students can’t afford to make in person visits. Why should only those students who can afford to visit enjoy the benefits of ED?
Every family has to do what’s right for them, but if an NPC shows affordability and the student at least does a virtual admission session, I see no reason they can’t apply ED if that school is their top pick.
Over the last several years we have seen the tide turn in terms of ED pools. No longer are they comprised of just relatively affluent students. AOs from a T20 school stated in a webinar last week that their recent ED pools have everything they need in terms of the types of students they are looking for, which is why they have increased the proportion of students admitted in ED.