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<p>Doesn’t apply with my family or most of my friends’ families* if it’s relatives or close friends…especially if they’re younger in age/generation. </p>
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<li>Chinese and non-Chinese. </li>
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<p>My extended family is aware of such practices, but regards them as practices by uncouth “lower class* Chinese” who are excessively materialistic and to be disdained, not emulated. </p>
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<li>Class in the sense of being “classy” or “not being raised in a barn”.</li>
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<p>To validate zoosermom, you have to hit the bridal registry right away or there are few if any items left to choose from. If it is not common knowledge what the “plate cost” is, you can always count on “Aunt Angie” to call up the venu to find out. Bridal showers now rival weddings and plate costs can be in the $35-$50 price range. There is a cocktail hour that stretches for hours… with multiple tables of lobster, shrimp, carving stations, creps, whole roasted pigs, cheeses, etc. The reception is sit down, white glove, a band for music while eating and maybe a nightclub act or dancers, with a live band for dancing, (sometimes flown in from Las Vegas), announcements are made first in one language, then another. Depending upon the venu, there may be fireworks set off in the water that you watch from the patio during Vienese hour(s). Sometimes after this, there are “light sandwiches” served!!! My daughter was nearly in tears looking at the wasted food from the cocktail reception. That side of the family is happy with this type of wedding, we are not. And yes, there is most definitely a scorecard with amounts listed and it is remembered when that family member has a wedding. The telephone lines do burn up the next day. Oh, for the simple joys of sharing the marriage vows with those who love you and pray for your health and happiness.</p>
<p>Thank God my girls want small weddings. Rehearsal dinner with the wedding party, cake, punch, and finger food reception with close friends and relatives and then on to the honeymoon. I believe in that. So much money and anxiety is often wasted on extravagant but unnecessary things.</p>
<p>If you like the huge fancy wedding with the expensive dinner for 200 of your closest friends, complete with the top dollar venue and the whole shebang, and if that’s been your dream then I think, by all means, you should do it up right.</p>
<p>I’m just REALLY glad that my girls don’t want that.</p>
<p>D1 will probably do a destination wedding and have 2 receptions upon returning home. One with her dad’s family and one with us at my mom’s house.</p>
<p>D2 will have a very conservative but elegant church wedding as described above. But she may want a meal catered in the church fellowship hall - no alcohol.</p>
<p>D3 will do similarly, but it will probably be an Episcopal wedding with Communion and simple reception with champagne in the parish hall - no meal.</p>
<p>AND - we don’t pay for weddings. If you’re old enough to get married, you’re old enough to foot the bill. We’ll help, but we don’t foot the bill and we don’t call the shots.</p>
<p>I’m with you. We aren’t paying for weddings, either. However that didn’t stop me from making demands (and they aren’t even engaged yet!). I told all three kids that I expect a vegetarian option if there is food, that they will have a boutonniere for my brother if he is living, and that they will have a wheelchair accessible venue if they have an actual wedding. Otherwise I will smile and nod.</p>
<p>My D1 wants to have a small wedding at the Hershey Gardens with a small reception at the Hershey Hotel. Our side of the family is less than 10 people, so it shouldn’t be too outrageous.</p>
<p>I’m really intrigued by all of the wedding and other etiquette discussions that are coming of this thread!</p>
<p>More or less, regardless of tradition, I feel like the ultimate moral of the story is that any particular gift-giving practice isn’t vulgar. It is the expectation of the bride, groom, or their families that a certain amount will be given, and any perceived slight when it is not, that is vulgar. I feel like that’s something we can pretty much all agree on. </p>
<p>I also come from a family/area where giving gifts when invited to dinner is not customary. I come from a white, blue collar family and it’s just not something that is expected or practiced. My mom regularly hosts dinner at her house and relatives do not bring gifts. When we attend dinner at another relative’s house, similarly no gifts are exchanged. It’s just not an expectation that we have practiced. However, we do adapt depending on the situation. One of our close friends (a groomsman, in fact) comes from a family that always sends him with various goodies when he comes to visit. (Homemade deer snack sticks - yum!) So when we visited him recently for his college graduation party, we made a point of bringing some homemade cookies and juice (which I know sounds a little juvenile out of context but if you knew my group of friends it makes perfect sense). </p>
<p>As for dollar dances, I have only been to one wedding where this was done - my aunt’s. I’m guessing it was something that was traditional in her husband’s family but not in mine. Either way, the only people I remember being annoyed by it was the bride and groom who had to dance for about a half hour because one of my aunts sent her brood of six children through the line three times! </p>
<p>Zoosermom, it seems like you have the most personal perspective with this type of wedding planning. We don’t really have super ritzy places around here and that kind of wedding would be shocking/entirely unheard of. But among some groups it is the norm and I have also heard that the information regarding plate costs is spread by word of mouth. And clearly from my encounters with brides who come from this tradition, they definitely do keep tabs!</p>
<p>Here’s another question that came up recently. I was under the impression that the bridal party was not obligated to give gifts because of the amount of money that usually goes into it - paying for a dress/tux at least, and all of the other things they usually/often end up doing (like planning bachelor(ette) parties). I have seen brides express shock and dismay that such and such bridesmaid did not give them a wedding gift. Is it an expectation that in addition to everything else, members of the bridal party also give gifts?</p>
<p>Also wanted to add for anyone curious that my fiance and I are paying for the majority of the wedding ourselves. My future MIL has generously offered to pay for the venue (as a gift from his late grandfather) and to pay for the honeymoon. We are thrilled with that and otherwise frugal, so while we are spending more than we might like to, we are still staying without our means.</p>
<p>Two of my nieces recently had weddings similar to the ones described in #142, and while their families could afford them, I wondered if any of the guests really <em>enjoyed</em> being there. In this economy, the weddings came across as excessive and wasteful, and I think they probably made some of the invitees feel bad (inadequate, jealous, stressed about $, etc.) I’ve always preferred smaller parties over big ones, so I hope my kids want a more intimate wedding affair as well.</p>
<p>Bay I can tell you from my niece’s wedding last year that people didn’t enjoy themselves. The food was amazing, but it was physically uncomfortable and exhausting, and no one could really socialize with the other guests.</p>
<p>Zoosermom–you’ve done a spectacular job of describing a particiular set of wedding customs. It’s actuall kind of fascinating to read how others operate. Glad you are in a place where you can make your own choices!</p>
<p>ECmother–I am truly flabbergasted. I thought I’d been at some (though not many) fancy schmancy weddings, but what you’ve described is so out of my league; it’s just hard to picture.</p>
<p>But if anyone wants to read about some lovely smaller scale weddings, over on my “Gak! I have to hold a wedding thread” CC posters have treated me to some charming beachside, or otherwise less formal, wedding descriptions and ideas.</p>
<p>ZM - I am sincerely sorry if I offended you, but I did want to clarify that the very overt “cover the plate” tradition you are describing is not typical of most Italian American families. I don’t presume that it is not your experience, just that it’s not my experience. While the same sentiment may be there - hoping to add to the couple’s nest egg - I’ve never heard of anyone in my large extended family keeping track in the way you described. If you think your reference to Mob Wives is fine, but my reference to Jersey Shore is offensive, I don’t really get that, but I don’t watch either show.</p>
<p>I really hope the trend is to smaller, simpler weddings by the time my kids get married (if they are lucky enough to find the right person). I am often overwhelmed by the extravagance of some receptions we go to. I think of what the young couple (or parents who may be footing the bill) could do with the money instead of the top shelf liquor, passed shrimp, or ultra fancy favors. We will give each kid a check. The amount will cover a reasonable (sit down dinner with wine kind of thing, but not the stuff described above) wedding and maybe a trip. I would love it if each child decided to spend less and save the remainder for something permanent. As long as the (small) family and a handful of longtime family friends (think godparents and long term neighbor types only) are on the list, I will smile and nod through whatever they choose. I love a good party and I hope to enjoy “hosting” graciously, but I think the whole reality TV culture and the keeping up with the neighbors has gone too far. On the topic of gifts, it depends on how close we are to the bride and groom and if we attend or not. We generally decline invitations if we don’t know the couple well but will send a modest gift off the registry. I do tend to keep the cost of the plate in mind as a minimum but that may be due to my NY roots. I make an educated guess based on what I know about the reception.</p>
<p>Covering the plate is definitely discussed and expected where I live. Northeast, non-Italian. I don’t like it but it’s real.</p>
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Thank you for the gracious apology. My issue wasn’t with your reference to a specific show, but the implication that I had seen this on tv and was making up my experiences. I suspect it may very much be a regional Long Island-Brooklyn-Staten Island-New Jersey thing, as much as it is ethnic. But that’s where I live and where my in-laws, sister’s in-laws and daughter’s in-laws live. This is really how they do it here.</p>
<p>Wanna talk about their end of life practices? When my MIL died (she really was the mythic “Aunt Angie”), she left no l life insurance and no money, but had to have a four-session wake, a funeral with multiple limousines and a flower car, a thousand-plus dollar outfit for the priest, and a repast in the same exact venue as her daughter’s wedding had been held for 200 people with basically the same menu minus cocktail hour, Viennese hour and music. It cost over $20,000. Not including the grave and casket.</p>
<p>My family is old fashioned Protestant. We do the wedding reception in the church hall thing and practically kick the corpse into the ground with almost no fanfare. That’s what when I die.</p>
<p>mnmomof2, we have ADVISED our kids similarly. Many times all that extravagance buys the bride is a lot of anxiety. Lots of times she doesn’t even REMEMBER what all happened at her wedding because she’s too stressed out. We have advised them to keep it simple and put a downpayment on a home instead, spend extra on the honeymoon, put it away in savings for a nest-egg, etc. A few thousand dollars goes a long way in other arenas. It’s gone in a flash in the planning of an extravagant wedding.</p>
<p>gourmetmom,</p>
<p>“FYI, Cobrat - it is very rude to continually show up for dinner empty-handed. I’m sure your hosts are too gracious to mention it to you, of course, but I’m also sure they’ve noticed. It you’re not invited back often, perhaps that is why. My college-aged kids even do it when they visit the homes of their friends for dinner.”</p>
<p>Cobrat stated that this arrangement is reciprocal. Her friends and family do not bring gifts to her house and she doesn’t bring gifts to theirs. Neither do her other friends bring gifts to gatherings within the circle. This is the standard agreement among all of them. Therefore, it’s not rude in their circle, it’s the accepted norm. Within my circle of close friends and family it’s much the same. It’s wonderfully nice if someone brings a bottle of wine, but it’s certainly NOT in any way expected, and the practice is rare. Just come, enjoy the company together and visit…that’s the only expectation.</p>
<p>Now, if I were invited to the house of someone less familiar, with whom I had no such agreement, I would bring a small token. A loaf of fresh baked bread, a cake, a pie, a bottle of wine, an artisan cheese, etc.</p>
<p>ZM, I’m always so fascinated by the descriptions of your cultural norms, or the norms around where you live/your family. I’ve never experienced it and being an anthropologist by training, I’m eternally curious about cultural norms. Thanks for sharing :)</p>
<p>You should come visit me romani. I’d show you a very good time!</p>
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<p>Firstly, no one is “obligated” to give a gift, although it certainly is the custom. :)</p>
<p>Leaving that aside, I think that this kind of thing is strictly among friends, and depends on their circumstances. I was a bridesmaid twice. I gave both couples a wedding present. (Actually, I was just talking to one of them on the phone yesterday, and she remarked that she was cooking in the LeCreuset pot I gave her 30+ years ago! 
) </p>
<p>In both cases, the bride was thoughtful about controlling the cost for her friends. Both included her attendants in finding something to wear, and made an effort to find something that was a) something that we could wear again, b) flattering to all concerned, and c) not beyond our means. In other words, we did not wear conventional bridesmaid dresses. I did the same thing when I married. Both of them also found places for us to stay locally, with friends or family, so that we didn’t have to pay for accommodations. </p>
<p>I never wanted a wedding shower, and neither did my bride-friends. None of us had a “bachelorette” party either. I did hold a party for one of them, with another friend, to which we invited in-town friends, many of whom were not invited to the wedding. (We were all living and working in or around NYC and the wedding was held in another state. The bride’s parents planned the whole thing to their taste for their friends, and the couple were only allowed to invite a small number of people.) This was a celebratory, non-gift event.</p>
<p>I know that there are bridezillas who pick out an incredibly expensive dress that can never be worn again, and expect people to fly across the country, stay in a hotel, and throw them rounds of parties at which they extract more gifts from their acquaintances. I just don’t have any friends like that, thankfully.</p>
<p>BTW, it IS customary for the bride and groom to give small gifts to their attendants. Earrings were a popular choice in my circles. :)</p>
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My best friends and I have been getting together for dinners for over 15 years. It’s generally nice to bring the hostess a little something. A bottle of wine, flowers from your garden, fresh baked cookies, something small that made you think of her, many photo frames (we love photos). To insinuate that bringing something puts you in the casual acquaintance/stranger category is absurd. I’m not quite sure what older relatives have to do with your social interactions with your friends and if you take a small gift when you show up for dinner. Do older relatives go with you? It seems like an odd connection to make.</p>
<p>New Yorkers is a species to study.</p>
<p>D1 is the oldest among my friends’ kids, so we haven’t attended our friends’ kids weddings yet. Do you keep track of what your friends give to your kid and do the same for theirs?</p>
<p>I have a question about the “covering the plate” thing. If this is the accepted norm in some circles, what does the couple do about prospective guests who can’t possibly afford to spend that much on a gift? If one wants to invite their favorite teacher from high school or a cousin who is a social worker and makes 35K a year, do they get an invite or are they left off the list because of their inability to carry their own weight in shrimp and champagne?</p>